Husband Cheats & Kids on Porn

Sandy Joy – Therapist – Tramatologist


Intro: Welcome to Porn Talk with Powerful Eric, end the porn habit. reclaim your power. Here’s your host, Powerful Eric.


Powerful Eric: Welcome to Porn Talk, this is powerful Eric. The purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power. But it’s not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems. We are bound by self-imposed and societal chains, break the chains, get empowered now. My guest today is Sandy Joy. Sandy is a registered psychotherapist with a master’s degree in counseling psychology. She’s a registered professional counselor and a master practitioner of clinical counseling. Sandy is a certified Clinical Traumatologist, a qualified clinical counseling supervisor, and is proud to be a certified coach of the mindful habit system. Help me welcome my friend, Sandy Joy. Welcome, Sandy.


Sandy: Thank you Powerful Eric, thank you inviting me today.


Powerful Eric: Sure, well, Sandy, can you tell the listening audience a little about yourself and how porn has affected your life?

Sandy: Absolutely. For several years, I will say D-day was almost three years ago, and D-day was discovery day that my husband was having affairs. But for several years before that, you know, we’re healthy adults, but intimacy was an issue, there was a lack of intimacy. And, I’m going to say almost 10 years, and very little that, he just kept dwindling and dwindling. And I thought, oh, as we were aging, my now ex-husband was on medication, I thought, you know, the libido was lower, you know, there is issues with the rectal dysfunction with that. Okay, it’s a normal part of aging, medical issues, that kind of thing. However, even in the two years or three years before I found out, there was not even like hand holding, there was just no intimacy and it may seem to me, it’s a safe-net, you know, the hand holding, the hugging that just, you cuddle, and it doesn’t have to be the actual sexual act. And so, we were in marriage counseling and none of this came up, there was other excuses, there was, you know, that he resented me for the time I’d been doing my school work while I was getting my master’s degree. And I just kept saying, what am I doing wrong? What am I doing wrong? Why don’t you want and to me? And he said, I don’t want any women. And I knew that wasn’t true and I would say to him, but I see looking at other women, but you don’t look at me that way. And I had taken to actually changing in the bathroom or changing in walk in closet, because I felt incredibly self-conscious and invisible, that something was wrong with me, that he didn’t want me. The day I found out, accidentally found out, I had his phone because his district called and wanted to talk to me and it called on his phone. And so, I wasn’t looking through his phone, they just went to hang it up and at the same time an email came through that was quite clearly from another woman and having an affair. So, over the course of two days found out that actually he had a porn addiction and a sex addiction and my world being together with someone at that time and finding out, almost 34 years. And, in all, we were married, 31 live together, 33 and a half years and my world turned completely upside down, thinking that I knew who I was with, to find out he had been actually living a double life for more than 10 years and that it actually started when he was 14 years old with porn and porn addiction, severe on bondage. But how porn shews that day, had still was a daily thing for him and it really, I was destroyed. So, not only was my trash shattered but my whole life, my whole thought process, my whole, everything was shattered. My whole belief system, if you will, was shattered.

Powerful Eric: But for years, that’s a long time.

Sandy: A long time.
Powerful Eric: Why do you think he went to therapy with you when he was like, what’s the point of going to therapy if he’s going to continue to, you know, cheat on you and–?

Sandy: Right.


Powerful Eric: It doesn’t make any sense.


Sandy: And it was because this addiction is so incredibly deep and dark and secretive. And it fosters and thrives in secrecy.
Powerful Eric: Yes, it does.


Sandy: And it does, and just to put it, kind of an added, no secrets are good, all secrets are harmful. If you say, well, I’m keeping a secret because I’ve got something for their birthday, that’s not a secret, that is a surprise and that’s something completely different. It is something that you’re planning to see through, it’s a happy thing and it’s a surprise. When we tell our children or if a child, you know, going off topic a little bit, maybe. If a child is told, don’t tell anybody this, it eats a hole in that child and for fear that something bad is going to happen if they tell someone else that this has happened to them or they were told this. You know, and even as adults, if somebody tells us a secret and say, don’t tell anybody, it’s not about keeping confidence, it’s like what is wrong that this, you know, if it’s somebody’s confidence, then it’s keeping someone’s confidence. If it’s, you know, it’s usually the secret is that there is going to be harm, it’s harmful and toxic.

Powerful Eric: Well, Sandy, maybe this is a good seg-way here, you were talking about the secrets and kids and for first, to thank you so much for showing me this traumatic event that you go had to go through, you had to endure. But one of the disturbing trends I’ve noticed from the show, Porn Talk, is I’ve had kids contacting me that are addicted to porn, a 12-year-old, a 14-year-old, a 15-year-old. I would not have thought that they would be listening to this program, but, you know, what do you have to say to these, our younger listening audience?

 Stop, get help, tell your parents, ask for assistance. There is assistance out there that this addiction, and as we, I’m sure you’ve talked about, addiction is a habit. It’s not a disease, it is a habit. And the average age of porn addiction to start is between 10 and 12 years old. That’s the addiction, that means they have watched it for so long already, that it is ingrained in a pathway in their brain. And it is the subconscious coping strategy for them when they’re feeling stressed or even just when they’re alone and it’s a “go to” because it works on the pleasure principle in the brain, the pleasure centers of the brain and raises the dopamine level. The only thing with that, comes shame and guilt, and that’s what stops them from talking to a loved one. I’m doing something bad, I’m doing something, and it doesn’t start out, no addiction, no habit starts out as, I’m going to do this all the time. It just happens that, that felt good, so, I’m going to do it again and I’ll do it again and do it again, rather than replacing it with something that is growth, you know, for your own growth and happiness and fostering wellness inside. It’s fostering toxicity.

Powerful Eric:
 Yeah, so if that is the average age, the average age being 10, then when do most kids start?


Sandy: According to Fighting a Drug, and I would recommend anyone,, the average age is between 7 and 8 years old. It could we actually age six, the first viewing, by the age of 14, 94% of teenagers, adolescents have used pornography, 94%. So, with parents who say, Oh, my child wouldn’t do that, my child, it happens accidentally sometimes. Sometimes it’s just, you know, kids playing and what if we put in this word, what will come up? And it’s a hook, it becomes a hook. And in our day and age, with technology and smartphones and tablets and 24-7 access, without, you know, net nannies or whatever, they need on the devices, it’s there and it’s accessible.

Powerful Eric: Yeah and you know, people may say, well no, my darling child would never view pornography. Okay, let’s say that’s the case, well we know that their friends are going to show it to them.

Sandy: Absolutely. And it can be accidental, I’ll tell you a little story about my granddaughter and like at the time when she was 5, loved Disney princesses, the palace pets and so on and wanted to go on my computer to YouTube because there’s videos on Disney princesses and so she could type it, she could spell, she could type like so, but I would write with her and she typed in Disney little princesses in Google and you know, in the list what came up, it was like, I had to literally remove her from the chair. You know, and to just to get her away and she’s going, what’s wrong nana? And I said, there’s some things on nana’s computer that aren’t appropriate. So, nana just has to do some work here first and then we can, nana will bring up what you can watch and then you can see that.

Powerful Eric: Yeah, and another accidental thing that’s starting to come up now, I’ve heard of is, Alexa, you know, by talking to Alexa. Alexa doesn’t always understand what you say and there was a video I saw online, someone just happened to be recording while this kid was talking into Alexa. Alexa did not understand it and brought up, started to spew off this list of porn sites and in pornographic things. So, it happens by accident, you’re right,
Sandy: It happens by accident and it doesn’t mean that your child has done anything wrong. It’s come by accident and then it’s like, it’s curiosity, well what is this? And you know, they click on it and there’s all kinds of free access, so they click on it and then it’s like, what’s that? And then will I be in trouble? So, they keep it inside. But then there’s a curiosity about what they saw, and so they go back, and they go back, and they go back. And that’s what happens, it’s creating that pathway in the brain and pornography, you know, very short period of time does the exact same to the brain as what cocaine does the brain. And so, we have to realize that if we wouldn’t leave cocaine lying around for our children to accidentally access, we really need to be safe with our electronics. And that includes our television because now a lot of the smart TVs, they can access YouTube, they can access all kinds of things. So, unless we have these blocks on, on every single device and model the behavior that we wish to see in our children, you know, our children are going to have access. And if not at your house, at their friend’s house, that may not have these blocks on.


Powerful Eric: Sandy, you said, “model the behavior that we would like to see our children have”. Sometimes I go out to dinner and there’ll be a family sitting at the table and they literally are all on their phones, a family of five, the mother is on the phone, the father is on the phone, the three kids are all on the phone. I would presume that these kids at the table are on their phones because their parents are always on the phones, what do we have to say about all that?

Sandy: Absolutely, it’s about moderation, it’s not about not having the phones, it’s about moderation. And sadly, what’s happening as our adolescents, our children are turning into adolescents and teenagers is that they’re losing not only the ability for communication, but how to use it, how to interact with other people. And the more isolated they become, the more they go to the Internet, you know, for their entertainment. And the more they go to the Internet, the more porn is available, and I can’t state enough how damaging and how toxic and how far-reaching it is.

Powerful Eric: I don’t know how much truth there is to this story, someone told me, that now a lot of teenagers are choosing not to drive because they rather interact through social media. Boy, I remember when I was 15, I was chomping at the bit, that literally the day, that I turned 16 I got my driver’s license. It pains me to think that, oh my gosh, you mean these kids would rather stay online rather than to actually go out and see their friends. And its mind blowing.

Social anxiety is growing and growing and growing higher and higher. And why is it growing? It’s because of technology and technology can be a wonderful thing. I’m not downplaying the wonderful uses of technology, it can also be damaging and that’s where we need parents to moderate, you know, and manage how much screen time, you know, children are having issues with sleeping because you know, it’s the screen time, but they’re losing the ability to know how to interact as people. They are losing the ability to know how to play, they’re losing the ability and you know, to just have human interaction communication and it’s through text, they’re texting rather than calling or they’re choosing to stay and do the video game thing, or you know, absolutely.

Powerful Eric: Yeah, and Sandy, I know you’ve worked with children at the Simcoe County Children’s Aid Society and also, one of your specialties, is working with victims of trauma, how is porn a form of trauma for kids with early exposure?

Sandy: Absolutely, it is stunting their developmental growth, what happens is the pleasure center of the brain becomes larger and the executive center then becomes smaller. So, the executive center is where we have our logical reasoning, our decision making, our ability to learn and so, as that becomes smaller and the pleasure center becomes bigger, you know that children are struggling in school with academics, they’re struggling in other areas of their life. Which is all traumatic because now there’s more bullying, there’s, just more issues. But the trauma of it, is, porn, whether some people agree with this or not, there is so much research, porn violence against women, porn, when we’re watching porn, we’re watching a woman being raped, end of story. That’s exactly, women being raped or getting raped, that’s what we’re watching and that is traumatic. And what’s happening, especially, and this is sad, there is more research coming out and there is just a study from, I can’t recall the exact hospital in California where there were young girls ages 4 to 8, they were seeing over and over these young girls coming in being sexually abused, sexually assaulted, and the perpetrators were young boys, ages 8 to 15.

Powerful Eric: Oh my gosh.


Sandy: So, it’s, you know, it’s just spiraling, and where is the cost from watching pornography. So, watching porn, the boys go to enacted and so they enacted in smaller and younger girls and these girls are being sexually molested by other children. So, children upon children abuse, sexual abuse is increasing exponentially.

Powerful Eric: Sandy, we’re talking about a lot of the challenges and problems and issues that porn has brought up, how can we heal? How can, like for these trauma victims that you work with, what are some of the tools, what are some of the things that you teach to help them move forward?

Sandy: For the ones who have been abused, and I’m going to enlighten that pornography is abusing these young men.

Powerful Eric: Well, I agree. I’m an example, I stumbled on pornography at a young age, I’m an example, you know?

Sandy: Yeah, the Hugh Hefner’s,  Ron Jeremy’s, the ones that and now it’s a multi-billion-dollar industry and its money driven and it’s just a huge industry and yet it’s destroying our society and it’s t’s increasing violence against women, violence against children. So how do I help to answer your question, for children, depending on their age, it is through play therapy, but it’s to let them know they did nothing wrong. They did nothing wrong to be on the receiving end of this violence.

Powerful Eric: 
So, can you give an example of play therapy?

Sandy: Okay. So, for example, you’re literally, as a play therapist, you’re sitting on the floor playing with all kinds of different toys. And at first, the child needs to be able to trust you, that you’re safe. And once that happens, the child will start reenacting through play what has happened to them because sometimes the child cannot voice what it was that was done or what they felt like, but they reenact it with plastic animals or plastic, you know, people. And it’s in that reenacting, that you’re able to ascertain what the child has gone through without asking questions. We do not ask probing questions; did this happen to you or something like did this happened to you. It’s what the child is reenacting, is what you know happened to them. So, then you are letting them know that they didn’t deserve it, it is not their fault, that hey will be okay, they will get, you know better. And it’s about giving them opportunity to have a voice, work it out through art, through drawings, through coloring, through screaming. My ultimate is to have my own clinic where I had a rage room, and that’s for children and adults, because anger is a secondary emotion that actually covers when we’re feeling powerless, vulnerable, fear and sadness. And when we’re not safe to feel sad or safe to be vulnerable, anger is that defense mechanism, it’s the fight of life. It’s the fight that tries to make us feel powerful and, and it’s not wrong to have that emotion. What is wrong is when we take it out on other people in an abusive way, whether that’s verbally, whether that’s physically, whether that’s emotionally, but it’s okay to express it rather than hold on to it because it’s covering, it’s a defense mechanism. And a rage room is a place where you can go in and smash things, in a safe environment. Other things that I allow kids to do, is pick up a pillow and just scream at the top of their lungs, and your punching bag. To be able to get these, you know, how dare someone do this to me and be able to get that anger out is, is actually very human and helpful.
Powerful Eric: Yeah. I have my four-year-old son in a little dragon’s martial arts and I’m a martial artist as well, and I can definitely speak to the benefits of hitting an object, it is very liberating. And so that, that brings me to the next question, so we were talking about kids, what would you suggest adults that have experienced some type of, either sexual trauma or just are addicted to pornography, what, you know, are, a lot of our listeners right now, of course, are men that are, or younger men, but I’m directing this to the older men. What would you say to the older men that are addicted to porn or that have some form of trauma that they’re overcoming?

Sandy: So, the first and foremost is reach out for help, if you think you can stop this on your own, then why portray that you will not be able to. Tell some people, absolutely, I’m not going to give everyone the same brush, because absolutely, there are some people, but it’s very rare, and that goes to most addictions. Very rare that someone can just go cold turkey, never see anything. And the reason is, especially for porn and sex addiction, is this, has sex is a part of our daily life, sexism, you know, almost every TV show you see, every movie you watch, every magazine you look at, there is something that is sexualized in our society, is highly sexualized. The other, it is an inmate, a neat  part of us that we are sexual beings as human beings. And it is very hard when someone has a porn and sex addiction to reign back and to have an intimate relationship because that’s one of the things that porn does. It destroys the intimacy completely and utterly destroyed intimacy. So, someone is watching porn. There’s no vulnerability, there’s no emotion. You don’t have to be open. It’s pure fantasy. Surely raising the, you know, increasing the dopamine and increasing the pressure center of the brain, whereas an intimate relationship, there has to be true intimate relationship. There has to be vulnerability and emotion and the person has to be open, but it’s not as exciting. It doesn’t mean that dopamine and oxytocin can’t rise, and an intimate, you know, true intimate, loving relationship, it’s a different feeling than they, the spike in dopamine. And it still tells,  it’s still there unopened. So, what do you do? Reach out to someone, to professionals who know? And I’m going to do a plug for the mindful habit system because in my 20 plus years, I’ve anything working in this field as, as a clinical traumatologist, as a registered psychotherapist in my experience professionally and personally. And believe me after I found out almost three years ago, my G.O. T.O is research, what can I read? And I’ve read, I can’t, oh, so much, but that’s for my own self to understand. So, what I found is that things like 12 steps, can it help some people? Absolutely. And again, I’m not going to say if they can’t, for porn and sex addiction, it doesn’t have, it has a very small, F.F.I.C rate. And the fact, even for alcoholics, it is an 8 to 22% efficacy rate. That’s very well.

Powerful Eric: Well, I can personally for those that have been listening to the show, knows, I was in 12 step programs for about 20 years with very little success. And then I found the mindful how that system, which, both Sandy and I are certified coaches under the main five. It’s this one. That’s how we know each other. And I can personally vouch that it works. It works. It didn’t, it doesn’t happen overnight, and it requires a lot of work. But, the science of mindfulness for me has worked wonders.


Sandy: Yes, and it does, and  I use the mindful habit system, you know the 3 A’S, you know I use this system with almost all of my clients because their compulsive behavior is, isn’t addiction itself, but compulsive behavior anxiety is a thought addiction. O.C.D is about addiction. Perfectionism as the thought addiction, anger is a feeling addiction, you know it  is a feeling addiction. So, there’s all kinds of addictions in and they’re all compulsive behaviors including the thought process. So, the 3 A’s of the mindful habit system, the awareness, the accountability and action work in so many ways, including working with trauma and the compulsive thoughts, the use of thought that something is wrong with me or I caused that to happen. And so, that’s in the coping component and the relaxation techniques and the coping before you do any trauma processing. I am working on safety and coping and relaxation techniques with my clients. And this is the mindful habit comes in all the time. Many people believe that being mindful, it’s sitting with meditation. And I can tell you, this is not it, so, if meditation can be a part of it? Absolutely. But it is not the beginning, for myself I have a difficult time for meditating. I am a mover, so ,dancing met at mindful is being in the here and now, been cognoscente, what’s happening in your body, the feelings, the stress, whatever’s happening and what do you do about it? That’s being mindful and making mindful choices that nurture and nourish yourself. And in doing so you’re nurturing and nourishing your relationships, your family, your work, all of that. When you nurture and nourish cells, you’re nurturing and nourishing everything around you as a matter of fact. So, that’s what mindfulness, mindful, you know?

Powerful Eric: Right. And you know, like I was talking about martial arts, that’s a form of mindfulness.


Sandy: Yoga.


Powerful Eric: Absolutely yoga.


Sandy: Yeah. You know, but for some people it’s playing volleyball, they’re playing and they’re feeling, just focusing on that ball coming across. It’s something that brings some pleasure, they feel productive, they feel exhilarated, you know, going for a run, a walk. Walking is a, patting your dog, it’s those kinds of things that I’m mindful and it’s what brings you pleasure, those things it’s self-care, you know, what brings you pleasure baking for me, I love to bake. It’s something I do for me. I don’t have a sweet tooth. My neighbors love me. It’s just I love to bake, and it is just a, for me, everything, all the stress just goes when I’m working with that. I don’t like to cook so much, but I like to bake.

Powerful Eric: Sandy, this show, as you know, it’s not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems. What belief or paradigm needs to change around porn or would paradigm mean to change for men around porn or kids around porn?

Sandy: Yes, first thing I’ll come to is that it’s normal, not for adolescents. It’s not normal, all men do watch porn.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


Sandy: It’s not a right to passage for adolescents.


Powerful Eric: Yes.


Sandy: It’s not normal, it’s toxic and when you say it’s normal, if you’re saying it’s normal to have your adolescents take cocaine because it’s doing the exact same. It’s your normal for your partner to watch porn. You’re telling yourself that it’s normal for your partner to have cocaine because it’s doing the same thing to the brain. I don’t think as a society we agree that have, you know, taking cocaine is normal or, okay. It’s just as toxic.

Powerful Eric: Yes, it is the normalizing. I love what you’re saying because you can’t see my, no, I have a little, we made up a little mascot for the show and he’s a little wiener guy and it’s to make fun, but it’s got a serious connotation to it. It’s the little man, he’s got a smart phone. He’s got a big red eye and he’s obsessive really looking at the smart phone with pornography on it. And, it’s the, I coined a term, I caught it, the pornification of the world, that porn is just a normal thing that everyone uses, and you know, every, it’s got, it’s on your smart phone. It’s just a normal thing. Oh, you know,  he’s that kid viewed porn, you know, big deal. But when I was a kid, if we got a hold of say like a playboy magazine, like oh my gosh, I mean we really thought we had something magazines completely, they don’t even produce the magazine anymore because there’s so much hardcore porn online.

Sandy: And that’s the thing, so, just like and I’m going to use the example because people understand more if you will. Alcoholism, a person who develops alcoholism doesn’t start out to be an alcoholic. They start out and have a drink or two, and you know they can’t remember now, so, it works out a little cheaper, you know they feel a little bit better and so the next time, you  know they have another couple and that couple doesn’t do a damn thing and they have to have three or four and after that, five or six and then seven or eight and then they have to have it every day or binge on the weekends because that’s still an alcoholic. They don’t start out choosing to have the addiction. Someone who’s watching porn thing, oh I’m watching this. And they usually start with a softer, if you can call it soft one, it’s all abuse and assault and I will stand by that 100% I’m 97% of people, women in porn of human traffic. So,  just go off on a tangent. There doesn’t start off to be, but all of a sudden it’s, it’s not enough. It’s not okay. I see. Not like that’s not doing anything for me, It’s not raising the job and we know that. We don’t know that it’s just not doing absolutely anything. So, you watch harder stuff and then that’s not doing it. So, then you need to go to harder stuff. And the harder stuff, and I want to put this out there because there’s a huge denial and there’s two things with points I want to want to do. Okay. If that’s okay.


Powerful Eric: Sure.


Sandy: One is that men who are watching porn don’t believe they’re watching child porn? I’m going to ask how, because the female could be 13 years old and makeup and hair, to look like she’s 18 or 19 or 20, or 22 children are developing, earlier and earlier there was girls that are having their period by eight years old and developing breasts. So, by 10 or 11, they may look like you’re 16, so, by 13 and may look like you’re 18 and 19 or 20. And so, you’re thinking you’re watching young woman, but you may actually be watching a child and you don’t know. But any watching of porn could actually be child porn.


Powerful Eric: I understand. Well, I love what you said paradigm that needs to change about the normalization of the view porn. So, go ahead please.

Sandy: It’s just the statistics of adolescence, okay. The highest raising population have an erectile dis-functioning man, we tend to think it’s the 67-year-old man, you know, age, medical, it’s not. The highest raising population of erectile dysfunction is within 18 to 25-year-old males, and it’s because of you know, men.

Powerful Eric: Yeah, I’ve read that the largest segment that is requesting the little blue pill, for erectile dysfunction is the 18 to 25-year-old. Yeah.

Sandy: And it’s because of pornography.

Powerful Eric: Yeah.


Sandy: And it can be reversed, with stopping the use.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. And I actually know a young man that does have that problem for that reason. Yeah, that’s somebody I know.


Sandy: It’s sad.


Powerful Eric: Well Sandy, we are talking about all these huge issues here. One of the things on the program we like to talk about is, you know, how to create a great life. We don’t want to just overcome an addiction to porn or just overcome an addiction to compulsive sex. We want to create a great life, what is it that  you share with your clients on not just overcoming the addiction but on creating a great life? How, how can we create a great life?

Sandy: Yes, my addiction, any addiction we tend to, it tends to be I think, well I deserve this. I deserve this. I, you know, it’s not going to hurt anybody. What I work with my clients is what really do you deserve, do you deserve something that’s toxic, that it ends up being harmful and harmful to the relationship or do you deserve to have something that is, that it grows you, powers you, gives you power, true power that you feel so good about and that you can share with the world. And that starts with self-care, there are four basic human needs, you know, other than food and shelter. And that’s to be loved, to be accepted, to be wanted and to be respected, and in those four it comes with self-respect, self-acceptance to oneself, and to have self-love and to have those things, it has to start from within. And that’s self-care. So, what does self-care look like? We’re really, it’s different for anyone. So, like I said, like somebody playing volleyball, or you doing your, your martial arts, you know? For somebody else it’s soaking in a bubble bath with a glass of wine. For me it’s taking, I like bubble baths too, but it’s whatever, the self-care and there could be multiple things. So, that’s the first thing is to work on the belief that you just deserve to take care of yourself and to carve out time every single day for yourself. Even if it’s 15 minutes. And as, parents, we tend to put our children first. And I’m not saying you don’t do that, but as long as you’re carving out some time for you too, you go for a walk, a run, go to the gym, play that sport, you know, read that book. We just relax with music, whatever that looks like, it will grow you. And it will foster healing in you. And you just, every person deserves it.

Powerful Eric: Yes, they so, yes we do. That was the hardest thing for me, you know, from viewing porn so early, I didn’t like myself.


Sandy: Yeah.


Powerful Eric: So, for you, you know, for years I would do this affirmation. I would say to myself in the mirror,” I like myself” or I couldn’t even say that I’d say I’m learning to like myself. Finally, one day I teared up because I looked at myself in the mirror and I actually liked myself and it was a fantastic, it was a fantastic day. So, yes, you got to learn to love yourself.

Sandy: Right? So, and that’s exactly as we’re going to get used  to liking and loving  ourselves Eric . And that to be able to look in the mirror, look yourself in the eye and be truthful and say, “you know I love you” and mean it, that wasn’t hard to say. And it’s not in a narcissistic way or a self-centered way, conceited way, you know, sociopathic way. It’s to say, you know, you deserve to be healthy and happy and have those things around you but mostly inside of you because it’s really not the things that are on the extra harder, you know, family and friends. It’s what we believe, what fills you up.  What fills you, what fills your sooner and want to fill your soul with things that make you healthy, happy rather than things that are going to bring to you and are toxic and your way.

Powerful Eric: Well, Sandy, thank you so much being on the show, how can listeners get a hold of you or —

Sandy: My website is that simple. It’s, you can view my website and my email and stuff is there or, is my email. I would also ask the– and please feel free to reach out. And I really do help many partners, ex partners at people responding, sex addiction and trauma, betrayal, trauma and stuff that comes with that, on your own work in their power. But I ask you to reach out to the mindful habit system, you know, Powerful Eric as a coach for health because it’s working. It is working so tremendous as well. So, many people are being helped and  it’s phenomenal. Yeah, we are for parents, anybody. So, research to fight, move your, I’ve got a work, there’s so much information on their research, reliable, no experiential knowledge information. And  that’s including, there’s a part about how does you talk to your children about pornography? You know, especially if your child comes to you. How do you open up the discussion? And it’s important, you know, I remember when like, and maybe you too, Eric, our parents never talked to us about sex, we would either learn that from your friends or you know, a little bit in school, but you really learned it by yourself.


Powerful Eric: Right.


Sandy: Well now parents, more parents are talking to their children about sex and they’re learning more in sex education in school. Still not enough. We need to talk about this, this toxicity that is literally eating our society away from inside out. It is, and we need to, and it’s growing in secrecy. We need to be the voice. Did you be the voice? And I’m writing that in my lifetime. The porn industry shut down, if not mine, at least my children’s life time.


Powerful Eric: Right.


Sandy: That money talks. Right? So, I’m not, I’m trying to be hopeful and I’ll continue to be helpful and that’s all I can do, is I will not have this in secrecy.

Powerful Eric: Right. Well, Sandy, thanks again for being on the show. If you connected with Sandy, be sure to reach out to her. Thanks for listening. And I’ll close with this quote from Zig Ziglar who says,” you are designed for accomplishment, you are engineered for success, and you are endowed with the seeds of greatness”. Stay powerful friends.


Sandy: Stay powerful.

Outro: Thanks for listening. If you’re struggling with porn or sex addiction, then contact Remember, you are powerful.

Listen to this episode:






The Law of Attraction

William Duffin aka Sir William. Teaches about The Law of Attraction.

Powerful Eric: Hi, this is powerful Eric. If you think more people should hear what we’re talking about here on Porn Talk and you liked the show. If you could please rate and review us on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. By rating and reviewing the show, more people will hear about the show. It really does make a difference, so please take just a minute and rate and review the show on iTunes or your favorite podcast app.  Remember to subscribe too!

Intro: Welcome to Porn Talk with powerful Eric. End the porn habit, reclaim your power. Eric has been in 12-step programs for almost 20 years, with little success. Then one day he stumbled on the science of mindfulness to combat addictions. Powerless Eric died, and powerful Eric was born. Learn from Eric’s mistakes and get empowered now. Let’s join powerful Eric.

Powerful Eric: Welcome to Porn Talk, the purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power. But it’s not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems because we are bound by self-imposed and societal chains. So, break those chains, get empowered now, and I have back my good friend William Duffin. He is a spiritualist and minister at Circle of Light Spiritualist Church, he is a teacher and, welcome back, Sir William.


William: Thank you Eric.


Powerful Eric: And as many of you may know from the other podcast, I like to call him Sir William. William would have you been up to since the last show?

William: Well, most recently I taught a class. Funny how it worked out, I am teaching the same class twice in one day. The law of attraction, and specifically, what’s the problem with the law of attraction?

Powerful Eric: Well, what is the law of attraction?

William: Law of attraction is a universal law, one of which, one of many universal laws and Law of attraction at its very essence says, “like attracts like”, you know, the old adage of birds of a feather flock together, we attract what we think about, every day, all the time.

Powerful Eric: So, what would be an example of the law of attraction?

William: Well, from my life, when I bought the car that I have now. Well in general, you know, it’s basically just, whenever you achieve a goal, whenever you attain something you’ve been visualizing, you’re using the law of attraction, right? So, specifically like when I bought the car I have now, my old Saturn had 220,000 miles on it, you know, and I got honest that, you know what, I live out in the country, I drive a lot. So, I needed a car that gets good gas mileage. And I like driving a stick shift, it’s just the way I am, I like it. So, I wanted a car. Two of my main priorities were, it gets good gas mileage and it’s fun to drive, preferably a stick shift. And as far as I know, there was no, at the time, no hybrid cars were made, they all have automatics, and some had manual transmissions. While I was looking around on Craig’s list, and I knew they had the criteria on the margin there. So, I had like, I think I hit like a certain MPG and standard and while there is a hybrid Honda called the CRZ, it was made of the stick shift, they made it for three or four years.


Powerful Eric: That’s awesome. So–


William: Then I ended up finding one at a local small dealer.


Powerful Eric: Great. So, that’s an example of the law of attraction and action.


William: Well, and I should fill in the blank there, I visualized it a lot. I didn’t just sit down and do this all in five minutes. I had to, you know, one of the important steps is getting honest. You know what? I have to be honest, I drive a lot. So, in order to maximize my dollars, I needed like this kind of mileage. So, like I want to emphasize an important step and that was being honest about my real needs, but I was able to get what I need and what I want.


Powerful Eric: Okay. So, a lot of the people listening to the program, what they want is to end the porn habit. And as many of you know, for a couple of decades I tried to break the habit using 12-step systems and one of the things you do is you count how many days that you’re not doing the thing. And all the meetings, we go around, we’ll say how many days we’ve been sober and then we describe usually like, the worst behavior you’ve done. That was how every meeting would start. How is the law of attraction in those?


William: Ooh, that’s a great example because I understand the therapeutic value of venting and telling your truth. Like, you know, I did this thing and I feel bad about it and there’s a value in forgiveness of the self and stuff like that.


Powerful Eric: Sure.


William: But, as far as the way the mind works in law of attraction, that’s horrible. Because you’re putting your attention on what you don’t want. You’re always obsessing or at least, obsessing is a too strong a word, but you’re always putting your attention and often obsessing about what, like, “I’m not going to look at porn. I’m not going to look at porn. I’m not going to look at porn.”. Psychology 101, little clue for you, the subconscious mind is not recognizing that. So, you say, “I don’t want to look at porn”, in your subconscious mind you’re hearing, “I look at porn”.


Powerful Eric: So, the subconscious mind will not hear the negative. So, when I say, “I don’t want to do something”, it hears “you want to do something”. So, I don’t want to watch porn, so, your subconscious mind just hears, “I want to watch porn”, because it doesn’t understand a negative.


William: Correct. That right there should be enough to tell you that’s why the success of a 12-step program is like, 12% or something.


Powerful Eric: It’s 10% max on very unusual, 20%. So, counting the number of days that you’re not doing something, the subconscious mind is hearing what?


William: If I say I have been avoiding porn for 12 days, I’m still visualizing porn, right? If you say, “I’ve been healthy for 12 days”, you know, if you stated porn in the sentence or acting out or whatever kind of terms you use, you know, if I say, “I have been clean and sober for 12 days, I have been healthy for 12 days, I have been clearing my mind for 12 days.”,  so, you can still use the 12th-step structure and I see the value in that. But, it would make it hugely more successful if you simply stated it in positive words.


Powerful Eric: Right. I did 90 meetings in 90 days and I was obsessively focused on not doing the thing for 90 days. And, I totally hear what you’re talking about. It’s a negative affirmation, I haven’t done the thing.


William: Right.


Powerful Eric: Well, since our last show that we talked together, we have our little mascot, for those of you that are on the video, you can see this. On audio, obviously you can’t, the show has a mascot. How would you describe the mascot?


William: A one-eyed walking wiener.


Powerful Eric: Yes, one-eyed walking wiener, he has arms, he’s carrying a smartphone, he’s got a big red eye. He’s obsessively looking at his smartphone, and I’ve asked viewers to submit names. I understand there was a technical problem, I won’t get into on why we don’t have of those names. What is– can you think of one of the names that you submitted?


William: It was something like that one-eyed walking wiener, it was kind of a long list, more than one word.


Powerful Eric: Yeah. The name that I thought was just something simple like, Dick. Because really, then the slogan can be, “don’t be a dick”.

William: Don’t be like Dick.


Powerful Eric: Yeah, or don’t be like Dick. But like I said before, we had him up there in-just, but really, he is got a smart phone and he’s addicted to his smart phone. This program isn’t just about breaking addiction to porn. It’s about breaking belief systems, it’s about becoming enlightened about reality. And even if you’re not addicted to porn, are you addicted to your phone? What do you think about that?


William: I think it’s great.


Powerful Eric: About the phone addiction.


William: Oh, about the phone. Well, I think it’s a real thing.


Powerful Eric: It is.


William: Obviously, you know.


Powerful Eric: My wife and I, we were at the park the other day and it was a beautiful day. I’m not exaggerating, just how everyone had their face in the phone and I was like, “oh my gosh, this is like worse than I thought”, but, I’ve come to find out they were having a Pokémon event, so, everyone was going around finding their Pokémon’s. And I guess that’s is a good thing that, that game is getting people out of the house and, but it’s just like, “oh my gosh, really? It’s just gorgeous day. We’re all out at the park and everyone have their head down looking at their phones”.


William: On the positive side, they’re outside, but, it would be even more positive if they don’t have their phone out.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. But anyway, back to the law of attraction. We were talking about kind of the negative things of the law of attraction, you know? Well, how would someone use the law of attraction to break an addiction to porn? Or compulsive sex?


William: Okay. The most simple answer is, focus on what you do. And everything else, stems from that. Can I tell you just a little bit about the law of attraction to begin with?


Powerful Eric: Please.


William: Do you know the first mention that we know of, of the law of attraction is in 1906? Elizabeth Towne wrote in the life power and how to use it, quote, ” man is a magnet, every line dot in detail of his experiences, come by his own attraction.”. She used the word attraction. I think that’s stupendous. You know, that was over a hundred years ago.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.

William: And a lot of you may have seen the movie the Secret, you know. I know a lot of my friends and the new age community have.


Powerful Eric: Can you tell them a little bit what is Secret.


William: Okay, the Secret is movie, came out, I don’t know, 15 years ago probably.


Powerful Eric: Docudrama.


William: Docudrama type thing. And they present the law of attraction. But since then I’ve seen two problems. One is a problem with a movie and the second is a problem with the way that people see the movie.


Powerful Eric: Which problem with the movie?


William: Well, the problem with the movie is, they don’t emphasize enough the steps between the visualization and the creation.


Powerful Eric: So, overly simplified.


William: It is a little oversimplified that, if I can just, there’s this idea that the secret promoted, and a lot of other people promote this idea that, if I can just get my thoughts straight, I’ll create everything I want, like magic. You know what? In a certain sense, that is true, but then what they don’t explain is that first part of getting your thoughts straight. What does that really mean? It doesn’t just mean I can make a vision board. A Vision Board doesn’t mean like put pictures of what you want on a poster board or something and you basically, you give it attention. You visualize like the car, I’m going to put a picture of the car that I desire, my new Tesla, and what’s it going to be like? What’s it going to smell like, feel like, what’s it going to drive like how’s it going to feeI when I drive it? How am I going to feel when other people see me in the car? And things like that. So, you want to visualize the whole thing. And that’s all very helpful. But, if you’re doing that and you’re only engaging the conscious mind, you’re really only engaging in about 20% of your whole mind, and then that percentage varies upon what book you read or the author of a book. It’s like from 10 to 20%, is actually in your conscious brain. So, how do I engage the subconscious mind? Well, that’s really the $64,000 pyramid question as they say. For me, one of the easiest answers is meditation.


Powerful Eric: Otherwise, another word, an umbrella term would be mindfulness because–


William: Yeah, that’s exactly what the next thing I was going to say. Specifically, mindfulness meditation. Because, when I first learned to meditate, I was taught, I mean, I had meditated before and not really not know it was meditation. But then I went, and actually took meditation classes, and they taught me to meditate. They said you meditate on a certain quality or characteristic like, I’m going to meditate for more patience or understanding, or compassion. And, I’ll just tell you, so, I was doing that, and I did that for, I don’t know, months, maybe even a year. Probably seven months and I was not getting the results I wanted. I realized that I would meditate on patience, how to create patience in myself and that will bring up two of other things I needed to work on. So, months of meditating on these things brought up like this laundry list of character flaws, all that I needed to change about myself. And, one day I sat down to meditate and remember, this is outside. I sat down to meditate, and I had this structured meditation, i had a routine. So, I sat down, do my routine and I was getting centered and I thought, “you know what? This is not working. I keep getting this like laundry list of things to change. I’m not getting what I want, so I’m not sure what I’m going to meditate on today. I’m just going to see what happens.”. And as at the very beginning, as I entered the meditation, as I just relaxed and got centered, this voice, my higher self, whatever, said, “you know, from physics, the light and dark can’t be in the same place at the same time. So, don’t worry about plucking on every little piece of dark. Just fill yourself with light.”. That helped me immensely.


Powerful Eric: So, what you’re talking about there, how can– what is something that you could suggest for the listening audience to do? Something real basic, simple.


William: So, that ended up changing the way I meditate, instead of like trying to focus on something, it was more of the Buddhist way of meditation of release and release and release and release. And then, next, you release some more, you know. So, you just keep releasing the things that aren’t really you.


Powerful Eric: But I mean, what’s a specific example that you could tell somebody that’s listening right now, on how to meditate? Like the candle thing or…


William: Oh, okay. So, the candle exercise is a good one because it helps you be the director of your own intention.


Powerful Eric: Can you tell them about the exercise?


William: Okay, so, you’re going to have a candle at about arm’s length away, at about eye level and yes, the candles lit. I was telling somebody this one time and they said, “should I light the candle?” Yeah. Set up the candle flame, at about arm’s length away, at about eye level, you don’t want to be strained, you know. When you first do this, have a pen and paper, pencil, whatever, and really no strict rules about it. Let’s say you start with five minutes, set a timer for five minutes, fix your attention on that flame, and every time you think of something other than that flame, make a mark. And in five minutes you might have 500 marks, just depends on how quick your attention moves, but you just, when something distracts you, you release what it is, like the distraction, just release it. And I say something like, if that’s really important, it will come back to you later.


Powerful Eric: Right.


William: You know, that’s it. Instead of saying like, “get out of my house”, say, “if this is important, it’ll come back to me later”, and trust, believe me, it will, trust your mind, your subconscious mind. And then, you know, put your attention back on the flame, release or redirect yourself, release and redirect yourself. And then, after about a month or maybe even, it takes two to four weeks, quit using the piece of paper because that’d become a distraction. As you get more and more centered. And then, increase the time to 10 minutes after again, like after maybe a month or so. And then after two months or maybe three months, quit using the timer, you won’t need it, you have a very good feel for that 10-minute window. Do that every day for a year and it’ll change your life. It will change the way you think.


Powerful Eric: I actually did this, William had suggested, I’m not sure if this was one of your classes or you just told me about it, but William told me about this exercise. I did this in the basement here for almost a year. And it’s challenging at first because just to stay focused on that candle, once you do it after a while, you get into this really relaxed state. And, I found it very helpful.


William: He just suggesting it. I’ve done it so much. I just, you suggesting it made me breathe. I didn’t even, it was like a conditioned response. Yeah.

Powerful Eric: So, that is an example of meditation. And let’s talk about, this show isn’t just about breaking addictions. It’s about creating a great life. How can we use the law of attraction, not just to break the addiction, but to create the life that we’re excited about? How can we use the law of attraction?


William: You know what? You just did a beautiful seg-way to the next major point of my class, and that is the emotions. In the Secret, they talk about engaging your emotions. You want to– So, let’s say you’re visualizing the car again, I’m in the car, I am engaging my senses in my visualization, what it smells like, what it sounds like, what it feels like, what it looks like, and all that stuff. You have to feel good about the experience, and so, if you’re honest, if you have worked on this mindfulness aspect, and you’re able to be really honest, one of the examples that I gave– I find in my research, was a woman realized as she was trying to reduce her weight, that while the blocks, because you think you would think that reducing my weight, I would have nothing but positive outcomes. That my friends say, “oh gosh, Jane, you look great today, Blah Blah Blah, have you lost weight? blah, blah, blah”, you know, all those types of things.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


William: She said one of her fears was envy.


Powerful Eric: Wow. Now that would be a big stumbling block.


William: Dude, I know, it’s like that light bulb goes off, you know, and she said she had to get really honest about her feelings attached to what other people think.


Powerful Eric: You know what’s funny about that? I’ve recently, well over the past year, lost 40 pounds on purpose and I’ve used the law of attraction and visualization, all those things. There was one person I was thinking about, a friend of mine who’s very overweight and I actually did have that thought. It came to my mind that, “oh, I’m slimming down. I wonder how he’s going to feel about that. I don’t want to make him feel bad”, it was just a fleeting thought that it did come through my mind.

William: Can I tell you one of the tools I use for getting off of myself?


Powerful Eric: Please.


William: The four agreements.


Powerful Eric: Okay. I know the book.


William: Okay. So, a lot of people, again, a lot of my new age friends know the four agreements, have read the book or at least have studied the actual agreements. I’ll tell you what they are. Agreement number, this is from Ruiz was his first name, Don Miguel Ruiz, I think his name. So, the four agreements, one, be impeccable with your word. Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use The power of your word and the direction of truth and love.

Powerful Eric: Wow.

William: I know. Just imagine, just doing that one thing.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. You know, it’s been years since I read that book. Man, those are powerful.

William: They are, and he–what’s the word I’m looking for? He gives credit to the TOLTEC wisdom.


Powerful Eric: Can you read those again for us?


William: One, be impeccable with your word. This is just number one. Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

Powerful Eric: All that under just number one?


William: That is number one.


Powerful Eric: Oh my gosh. Wow.


William: Okay. Number two, don’t take anything personally. Nothing happens because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

Powerful Eric: Wow.


William: Now, so, the converse of that is also true, in that we project our crap on other people. It’s just a reality, you know, it’s– you can frame this in a lot of different ways, like in Psychology 101, it’s your basic defense mechanisms. Okay. Three, don’t make assumptions. Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life. I would say that about all, each of them.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. I mean, I’m thinking about the porn addiction stuff and being truthful and honest. Oh my gosh, you apply this to a porn addiction or sex addiction, man, cured.


William: Yeah. And what’s amazing is– and again it’s been said many different ways and in many different cultures and philosophies is, the layers that you find, you know. Okay, I’m just going to do agreement number one. My focus for the next 365 days is I’m going to be impeccable with my word and then you quickly realize how much you bullshit yourself. You quickly realize that, wait a minute, that’s not the whole truth.

Powerful Eric: That’s awesome. I’m going to get back out that book, that book is, I was amazing when I read it and need to apply it again.


William: Number four.


Powerful Eric: Okay.


William: Another one. Always do your best. Your best is going to change from moment to moment. It’ll be different when you’re healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best. You will– by that you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.


Powerful Eric: Fantastic.


William: Another point that I bring up in my class, if you don’t mind me just continuing. When we talk about the law of attraction and karma, it’s often presented as if we are being judged all the time as good and bad. Like, karma is like heaven and hell. Like, there’s this divine punishment or reward system. I don’t know how to say this other than saying it’s just simply not true. Okay? By the way I understand the universe, and what I’ve learned in my experiences, it’s not true. And my full truth is, I was raised Catholic. All right? So, I was raised with the “you have to destinations, heaven or hell”.


Powerful Eric: Yeah, me too.


William: You got to be good. Try this on.


Powerful Eric: Okay.


William: There is no judge. One common misunderstanding is the implication, there is some force keeping tabs on us, judging us and then delivering us our experiences as either some sort of punishment or reward. I do believe there’s some sort of force that transcends our physical reality. Something that we will never have the full capacity to understand. But, I fully believe this entity is nothing but pure love, devoid of any sort of judgment. No matter what we do, it only sees our true nature, our perfection. Judgment is purely the purview of humans.

Powerful Eric: God knows I judge myself.


William: Right. And that’s why, one thing that led me to this, is authors like Marianne Williamson and Caroline Mace, and I think about them, I get emotional because, they’re to me, they are the two of the truly wise people that are still alive. Carolyn Mace, is MYSS, she wrote one of my favorite books called Anatomy of the Spirit and Marianne Williamson, who’s wrote a ton of books, she focuses a lot on like prayer and, I forgot what was, what was her big? Course in miracles, I think is her thing. But, the word that’s implied by this paragraph is not said, is forgiveness. Now, I’m going to tell you right now, from readings I have, from my own experiences, my own insight meditation, so on, and even more palpable readings I do for other people, is the big hang-up of humanity is not being able to forgive ourselves.


Powerful Eric: Amen to that.


William: I fully believe this force is set up to work for us, not against us. And as much as is able to support us, it cannot defy our vibration. It reminds me of what a Deborah used to say, a teacher we have in common named Deborah said, many times my spirit guides have dragged me kicking and screaming to my greater good. Like, but that’s not really true because your spirit guides can’t make you do something. It’s funny vision, but your spirit guides can’t make you do something and, God or whatever the universe is made up of cannot defy your will.


Powerful Eric: And for those that are not familiar with the term so much as you could just say, angels in place of that right word.


William: Okay. It’s delivers us experiences based on what are putting out there. It has no choice. To me, the universe, the best analogy I can find on earth is like a computer that it only gives back what you put into it.


Powerful Eric: And that’s what we’re talking about is the law of attraction.


William: Right.

Powerful Eric: What is this? There was a story you said in one of your classes, about Socrates and the story–what’s, tell them the story, that story.


William: One day a man rushed up the Socrates saying, “I have some news to tell you”. Socrates put up his hand to stop the excited man, “First let me ask three questions”. Okay, so the man, “is the news you’re about to tell me something you personally know to be true?”, “Well, no”, replied the man, “I heard it from a good source though”. “Let’s go to the second question”, Socrates said, “is the news you want to tell me, about someone you know personally?”, “Well, not really, but I think you know the person”. “I see”, said Socrates. “Let me ask you my final question. Is this news positive or negative?”, “Well, it’s negative.”. “I see”, said Socrates, “you want to tell me some news that you don’t know personally may be true about someone you don’t know at all, that is negative?”. “Well, when you say it like that, it sounds kind of bad.”. “I think I’ll pass”, Socrates said.


Powerful Eric: I love that story for some reason.


William: Because this story is put in its class to help illustrate, imagine Socrates and the man are really two parts of you.


Powerful Eric: Right.


William:  And do you believe your stories you tell yourself? You know, when I gave that little talk yesterday, I gave the example of my personal life of by today’s standards, I was raised, what would today be considered a terribly abusive home. Okay. Terribly abusive.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


William: Like, you know, cops would have been called. And so, I grew up basically thinking there was something wrong with me. I thought, you know, I was stupid, I couldn’t do anything right, things like that.


Powerful Eric: Self-deprecating thoughts.


William: Self-deprecating. And so, I am 51, so the past, you know, about 32 years had been spent departing and reprogramming that. Changing the input.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


William: So, let’s bring that back to the law of attraction. Joe Vitale, who’s one of the speakers in the Secret calls that, the law of unconscious counter intentions. So, that comes back to the idea of what the subconscious and the conscious mind. So, like I have my vision board, or I have, you know, what I don’t want. And, I focus, focus, focus on it, but I’m only engaging the conscious mind. I’m not engaging in the other like 70%. So, that’s when sabotage comes up.


Powerful Eric: Right.


William: I sabotage myself and it doesn’t take internal Sherlock Holmes, you know, you have to be like a great investigator to look back and say, “oh my gosh, I see now how I set myself up for failure”.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


William: Easily, you know?


Powerful Eric: Absolutely.

William: It makes sense?


Powerful Eric: It does. William, thank you so much for being here again and enlightening us and myself about the law of attraction and action. William, how can listeners get a hold of you?

William: Oh, they can call or text my phone number (314) 403-4744. They can find me on Facebook as a Happy Mediumwill. That’s the first name, Happy, last name, Mediumwill. On my website,

Powerful Eric: Awesome. Well thanks again for being here. Thanks for listening to Porn Talk. Again, the purpose of the show is not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems, and I like to always close with a quote from Zig Ziglar who says, “you are designed for accomplishment. You are engineered for success, and you are endowed with the seeds of greatness”. Stay powerful, friends. Goodbye.


Outro: Thanks for listening. If you’re struggling with porn or sex addiction, then contact or call (314) 717-0377 for a free, no obligation consultation. You are powerful.

Listen to this episode:


From Suicide to Success

Craig Perra was addicted and moved from suicide to success.

Narrator: Welcome to Porn Talk with Powerful Eric.  End the porn habit. Reclaim your power.  Powerful Eric has been in 12 step Programs for almost 20 years with little success. Then one day he stumbled on the science of mindfulness to combat addictions. Powerless Eric died, and Powerful Eric was born. Learn from Eric’s mistakes and get empowered. Now, let’s join Powerful Eric.

Powerful Eric: Welcome to Porn Talk, this is Powerful Eric. The purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power, but it’s not just about breaking. addictions are about breaking belief systems. We are bound by self-imposed and societal chains. Break the chains, get empowered now. Our guest today is my friend and mentor Craig Para Craig is world renowned for transforming the lives of people who struggle with compulsive behavior and sex and porn addiction with success stories and clients in over 20 countries and six continents. Craig has made his mark as the top coach for professionals, executives, musicians, personalities, professional athletes, and men in need fast results and changes for the sake of their sexuality and relationships. Craig has been featured on a number of international media outlets, including the Katie Kirk show, the Steve Harvey Show and lifetime TV. He has a passion for Yoga and as a Yoga instructor in Roseville, California. Help me welcome my friend and mentor Craig Para. Welcome Craig.

Craig: Oh, thank you Eric so much for that kind introduction, so honored and privileged to be here, brother. I look forward to this talk.

Powerful Eric: Great. And as you know, last week, your wife, Craig’s wife Michelle, was on the show last week and she really was great. So, if you guys have missed that show, be sure to go back and listen to that, and she told, Michelle, told us just a teeny bit of Craig’s story, but Craig, can you share some of your story with the listening audience?

Craig: Sure, so, mine is you know, the classic case of a man, unable to deal with his trauma, is past, and two parts of me, all my life, I’ve had these two parts. One was this successful athletic, growing up class president, this part. And then there’s other parts starting at a very young age when I was exposed to pornography by an older neighborhood boy who use porn to touch me, for many years, this other side, this dark secret for most of my life, I was able to keep that dark, secret, secret and hid it from my family, hid it from my friends, hid it from, my now wife Michelle, who you guys heard from last week. And what were those secrets? It was secret porn use, pornography, adult bookstores and prostitutes and affairs. And so, I just move my family to California about 9,10 years ago to take a new job. This was the second job that I was fired from, in 12 months. I was an executive at a billion company, lost that job, became another executive at another billion-dollar company and moved my family across country for that job. Hated that job, knew that this wasn’t my future, it was terrifying. So, instead of dealing with it like an adult, I threw myself off the cliff. I went on a self-destructive drug fueled bender with prostitutes, a trans escort, and just sunk so low, I ended up getting fired, which is what I, part of me wanted to happen. I’ve since realized and found myself in an inpatient Rehab Facility for three days, one of the loneliest three days of my life after trying to kill myself, snorting bath salts and that was rock bottom. And that was, you know, either live or die and I chose a to live and fortunately that’s worked out very well for me.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. Thanks for sharing your story. One of your quotes that I absolutely love, it’s probably my favorite quote of yours is “The cure for this affliction is the aggressive pursuit of a great life”. Can you tell the listening audience what you mean by that?

Craig: Sure, and this is one of those quotes that depending upon when you hear it, either it inspires or it, promote resentment. Right? There are people who hear that same quote, “The cure for this affliction is the aggressive pursuit of a great life”. And their first reaction and bullshit, thanks for telling me nothing. You’re, you know, click-bait, marketing, tomfoolery, and just to bring it back to my story arc, because a number of things coalesced at that low point. And while I don’t recommend a bender to anybody, I will tell you this, when you’ve got no place to go but up and your life is at that low point is an incredible opportunity to transform. So, this is for you guys. Listen, you can transform without jumping off the cliff, but if you’re there, know that you will get through it. And if you do the right things, you’ll come to it stronger. You’ll come through it better. So, I’m at this low point and I’m a have to make a decision. Where am I going to put my eggs in, in what basket, am I going to do the 12 steps again? Am I going to see a therapist again? Maybe, I didn’t deep, dig deep enough, you know, maybe like almost two decades of therapy then didn’t bring me back to that core wound. Maybe, I didn’t go to enough meetings. And so, it’s at around this time, two things came into my life from there very quickly, followed by a third. The first is I discovered this website called fight to “Feed the right wolf”, which I now own, which I think is awesome, but there’s wonderful man named Alex created this website, “Feed the right wolf”, based upon this native American tale that there are two wolves inside us. Good, evil, which wolf wins? The one you feed. Okay, so, that, like that. And that came at the same time with this, “Break a habit, make a habit”. And I was unemployed. I had a lot of free time on my hands to figure out how I’m going to put my life back together. And the combination of those two things, you know, led to this behavior change system that I’ve created, that’s changed the lives of thousands of people. But it started at this moment where I realized that my success and not doing the thing was a function of something else. And so, then I started to read about recovery stories, but I skipped every chapter. I went right to the end and went right to the end of all these success stories. People who have recovered from drugs, from alcohol, from sex, from porn, whatever their compulsion was. And the end of every one of those stories was someone pursuing a great life. There is no mediocrity when you get to understand what’s really driving this numbing coping and escaping behavior average. Okay. Mediocre Malays it’s unacceptable. So, that statement is a fact.


Powerful Eric: It is unacceptable, and that’s a thing like when I hear, I don’t know when I hear just the word recovery, it’s like, you know, that doesn’t exist either.


Craig: Kind of like, I kind of like, bristle Eric the same way you do. You know, when we’re operating in this world where people naturally, you know, for a whole variety of different reasons, quickly, you know, define their behaviors, compulsive or an addiction. And I’m an addiction, and then when you’re an addiction, you’re in recovery. And, I can get with a, you know, a period of stabilization, you know, after some significant crisis in someone’s life, I can understand that recovery, but the notion of it being this lifelong, state of running away from your addiction is just preposterous.

Powerful Eric: It is. I would much rather aggressive, aggressively pursue a great life.


Craig: It changes the mindset, it has used solution centric, there’s a number of layers to that very simple statement that a very profound, and again, some of you men and women listening to this right now, will hear that the cure for your affliction is the aggressive pursuit of a great life and that may repel you, that may, you know, cause you to question my credibility. And I want you to remember this moment because I promise you when you’re ready to receive that, reality, your life will change, and you’ll come back and say, shit, no, that was my projection onto what Craig and Eric were talking about versus it being a fact, because it’s a fact. It’s a fact, Derek. Like it is a cornerstone on which I live my life. I’m in one of two places. I’m on the right track and I’m on the wrong track. And they were going to be places when you’re on the wrong track, your kids get sick. Your commitments get in the way of your self-care, someone dies, things go wrong at work, you know, problem after problem after problem. But knowing that I’m in that place, if I’m in, an Ed that’s prompts action to get me back into that aggressive pursuit of a great life because that’s what’s necessary to lift the mediocrity Malays and under achievements that’s suffocating these men who have lost themselves and pixels who are literally a slave to that, you know, or orgasm, you know, second of satisfaction to math, fear and pain and then adequacy.
Powerful Eric: Yeah. Well let’s talk about really quick, was it working? Maybe a low point in your life.

Craig: So, there are a number of moments when I look back that just have me shaking my head and like, what kind of world was I living in? And one of the places that I used to go and have all the things I’ve admitted publicly, this still makes me uncomfortable is the adult bookstores. And for those of you who do not know, do not go, it is the place where man go to die. And they are these shady stores with these boots that you can go into the slip money into a machine to masturbate. The room stinks, there’s semen on the floor. I mean it is disgusting, it is absolutely disgusting. But one moment that just to share with you guys to bring a little bit of levity, to get you thinking about your behavior without all this shame and judgment. There was one time when I was one time, so, the walkout, walking in is easy one because the mind is in that addictive state. It’s in that compulsive drive, it’s then you know that that addict part of you is, it was driving me. So, you’re not thinking about who’s looking, that there are cameras, that you know there could be a news crew filming the place. Like, you’re not thinking about you, so you can see someone that you know, you’re in the zone. So, I’m in the zone, so boom, I get in, I spend my whatever I spent wasted money to. And by the way, this isn’t an arrow of cell phones by the way. You know, like I’m watching paying to watch porn in an adult video store, when we have the power of cell phone, that’s how banged up I was. And so, I’m walking out, and my feet hit a patch and like the movie theater, the floors are disgusting, and you know what’s on the floor and my feet start kicking out from underneath me, like in the cartoon and I can hear the squeaking, and I am ready to fall down flat on my ass. Everybody’s looking now, the three people that were in the store. So, I’ve never been more humiliated. And I grabbed on to the videos that were holding up and it was, I remember looking over and seeing just a big penis, in this video, and I’m about to fall into this big pool of come and finally stabilizing myself, collected myself, and walked outside drowning in shame. Like literally just like, what am I doing? And of course, how do we respond to that? We act out some more, and I’m sure I found a way to numb, cope and escape from that shame. But that was absolutely, one of the low points towards the end that, I looked back on and shake my head and say, what the hell were you thinking? But, listen, I mean, listen, that Eric, that was something I had done since I was 16 years old. I’ve been going to adult video stores since I was 16. Other kids got fake IDs to buy booze. I got fake IDs to go buy porn.


Powerful Eric: Wow.


Craig: And you go to these shady places, there’s all sorts of shenanigans going on. And I dabbled in that too. I mean, it is a dark, lonely place. And, you know, for your, for you guys out there with just watching porn, you know, I had a client once they’re at any, he took a picture itself, you know, in the position, right? The slouched over position. You know, I was sitting in his desk chair. He was fully clothed when he took the picture, but he wanted to see what he looked like and he wanted to like get a land from the outside looking in. And that became his shameful moment when he saw how weak his posturing was, he saw how pathetic it was. He saw how much time he spent in that position instead of this position, you know, creating something, building something, living a great life. So, you know, let those shame moments be teachers.

Powerful Eric: Yeah, and I wanted you to share that story for the guys that think that, oh, you know, I’m hopeless. There’s no hope for me. And I want them to hear just a small part of your story on how far and you’ve got, I know a lot of other stories as well, so thanks for sharing that.


Craig: Yeah, you’re welcome.


Powerful Eric: And I wanted to, while we’re on this down part of it, what would you say from all your experience, what does not work to help people overcome addictions?

Craig: Yeah, so, this is, you know, here we are on this porn addiction podcast is compulsive behavior podcasts. And what doesn’t work is obsessively focusing on not doing the thing. So, for a lot of people, how they interpret that disease-based modality, they go to the meetings, people share their failures, very few successes shared

Powerful Eric: Well, I know it very well I’ve been going to 12 step meetings for 20 years but go ahead.

Craig: Yeah, so, you know, now listen, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t meetings out there that are helping people and that connection that the men form, but as a modality it doesn’t work and the data’s actually pretty poor. So, obsessively focusing on not doing the thing is what’s keeping men stuck because they’re not aligning their action with the golden rule of behavior modification, and that’s the break a habit you have to make a habit and that make a habit part forces you to focus on other areas of your life like self-care, living, your life’s purpose, your career, finances, health, hobbies, relationships and spirituality. You have goals, you have a vision, you have a plan to get there. And by the way, all of those things you’re doing are meeting means in your life. See the problem with obsessively focusing on not doing the thing, what people lose sight of is that this behavior is doing something for you. And I’ll share with you really quick a new exercise that I give to people, and that new exercise is they have to write down all the positive attributes of their compulsive behavior. What do you mean positive attributes? My wife’s ready to leave me. No bullshit. You do it every day. What’s it doing for you? Well, okay, well maybe it’s helping me escape. Oh good. And that first word turns into this, you know, five or 10 item list of positive attributes that, that behavior has meaning in their lives. It’s doing something, it’s serving a purpose. It has been serving a purpose for decades in many cases. So, what purpose is it serving? How do you get those needs met in a healthy, constructive way? That is the only way you’re going to create long term success in your life. Oh, and by the way, this issue takes care of itself. Not, doesn’t that, listen, everybody’s different. If you’re like me and you’re like, you know some other guys out there where you know, the level of sexual healing that needs to occur between each man is different. So, for some that sexual health piece is higher for some men, lower for others, but for all men, for every client that I’ve ever worked with, sexual health is secondary, that’s the symptom.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


Craig: That’s the symptom, So, you know that speaks volumes to me that’s like, and I have been screaming from the rooftops, is you’ve got to change the approach that you’re taking. And then people come in, they watch this video and they’re like, oh my God, my mind was blown. It shouldn’t be that way, Eric. They peoples shouldn’t be learning this stuff from the life coach.


Powerful Eric: Craig, that reminds me of a story I told you that the 12 step meetings that I had done 90 meetings in 90 days and you were like, you’re like, that’s sucks 90 meetings in 90 days. He said, why don’t you do like, why don’t you try to do a yoga pose a day for 90 days or something like that. And I did that and that was just so refreshing rather than focusing every day on this, this affliction to change my focus over doing a yoga pose for 90 days.

Craig: I mean, can you imagine a was, I remember that conversation because it’s one I’ve had often with a lot of people. Can you imagine if you took that two-hour block, right? Because you’ve got to get to the meeting, you’ve got to get back from the meeting. You’ve got the meeting itself, hour and 10 minutes, hour and 15 minutes. 90 meetings in 90 days. If you took that block and you went to Yoga class, you got a personal trainer and you know, like fed yourself and did what you needed to do to be, you went to the gym during that time, in 90 days, you’re a different person, you were transformed.


Powerful Eric: Yeah, absolutely, very different outcome. Craig, you’ve helped thousands of people literally around the globe on X number of continents. What would you consider all your experience? What are the common elements to guys that are successful in the program?

Craig: Sure, great question and it’s very important. Number one, there’s a motivation. There is this realization, that as long as they’ve tried to ignore it, and as long as they’ve been fighting with their partner about it, as long as they’ve tried to stuff it down, they come to this realization that they are living a crappy life. And that reality, that awakening to that reality, whether you’re a sex addict or not a sex addict, let people have that debate like you, my question I ask is, are you healthy? And the realization when they’re not is that motivation is critical, for at least success in my program. You know, this isn’t, my program isn’t, you know, coddle you along until you’re ready. That’s not what this is, now some people need that initial support. Maybe they’d better go to a therapist. Maybe they’ve got to acclimate to themselves, to the realities of what’s really going on in their lives. But motivation is important. That’s fundamental, the second related to that motivation is an internal belief system that you are in fact under achievement. So, you have to be motivated. You can be motivated and, and not believe that your life is worth more than that. And so, that’s someone else we want to exclude from the program. This reality that they are under achieving that they have, they’ve got more, you know, cylinders to fire, you know, more fuel in the take to burn. That is critically important to long term success. The third attribute is that someone is looking for results quickly. I like to set that expectation, Eric. You know, the way we structure things, of course at the mindful habit, there’s a 30-day money back guarantee. I liked that. I liked that pressure. People pay me for results. They don’t pay me to hold their hands and sing Kumbaya, and you know, and ask them how they feel. I mean I’m going to ask you how you feel, but it better come with a bunch of other tools, teachings and techniques that are going to move you forward. So, the combination of those three attributes equals success in my program.

Powerful Eric: Awesome. What would you say to someone that is listening right now, that is really lost or feeling hopeless? They’re listening to you and saying, you know this too well to be true. It’s just liked the other programs. You know, I’ve been in 12 step programs, and seen a therapist, what would you, what would you tell that person?

Craig: I would tell them to get on the phone and call you., because that’s what I would tell him to get coach Eric on the case. And, the reason why you want coach Eric on the case, because there is hope. There’s hope, this the gift, right? Like you’re going to come out of this, you, person’s struggling. Listen, right now, you’re going to come out of this saying, you know, I wish I didn’t hurt anybody in the process, but I am grateful for the gifts that this failure has given me. Because one of the key things that needs to change is your relationship with failure. Can you find the gift in it? So, just know that you with the right tools, teachings and techniques can create significant change in your life if you’re willing to work. And so, when you’re at that low point, when you’re at that low point, when you listen, some people have trouble getting out of bed. There’s depression on top of this, there’s an anxiety on top of this, there’s obesity on top of this, and addiction of sugar on top of this, and a terrible relationship with technology on top of this, you guys got this real narrow view of what you think your problem is. It’s so much bigger than that and if you just right now get a drink of water, eat something healthy, exercise for 60 seconds, begin to start to prioritize self-care and take action and you will not only see that hope, you will embrace that hope. You will realize that hope and you will look back on this low point as you can’t wish it didn’t happen. You know the way I say it is I wish I didn’t have to hurt anybody in the process, but I am grateful for the lessons that my compulsive sexual behavior has taught me and all of my compulsive behaviors. I’m grateful for those lessons. Without those experience, without those traumas, without being touched as a kid, without being exposed to porn as a kid, without having the other challenges that I did have as a child, I wouldn’t be here and I’m in a great place because of those challenges. In spite of them.


Powerful Eric:  Right, as you say, failure equals opportunity.


Craig:  I do say that because it’s true, and you know guys who are slipping, right? They, oh, I slept and here’s what happens. They feel bad about themselves. They shame themselves. Then they’ve got a numb cope and escape from that shame and they slip again. You fall down, you get back up. I don’t want to oversimplify it, but I want to over simplify it. When you fall down, you get back up. Just know that, that chronic self-deprecation is the problem, and the belief systems that support it, that is the problem, break that cycle.


Powerful Eric: Yeah. That’s self-deprecation, that was a big thing for me. I know for 20 years I was saying, hi, my name is Eric. I’m a sexaholic and it was completely counter-intuitive. To what I was learning, like I’m really big into self-development and personal development. And so, I was listening to people like Tony Robbins and Brian Tracy, things like that. I’m learning all these great things. And then on my, on the addiction side, I’m being told the opposite things and I’m saying that, hi, I’m Eric, I’m a sexaholic and it just wasn’t working for me. So, that’s what was so refreshing about your program. There wasn’t any of that. None of the labels at all.

Craig: Yeah, I’m so privileged and blessed. Eric, you know the thing, coach Adrian on the team just got his master’s in Clinical Psychology. George just published a book. You’ve got this podcast, you know what certified mindful habit coach. You’ve got clients that are just saying amazing things about you. And it’s just such a privilege from my viewpoint because I remember like I met these guys at that low point. I remember how low they were and to see out there helping people and changing lives, Eric is just, you know, warms my heart in ways you can’t imagine. I’m so proud of you.

Powerful Eric: Well thank you very much, now I’m thinking back, I mean, gosh, it’s been years now. It’s kind of surreal here that were on this show Porn Talk. I’ve come a long way, but the credit really, I mean is to you and the program. So, man thank you so much. And your wife Michelle for starting the blog that kind of started this whole thing. So, wow. I mean, you know, thank you.

Craig: A honor and a privilege, my friend, truly am.

Powerful Eric: Well Craig, thanks for being on the show, but can you tell everyone how can they get a hold of you?

Craig:  Sure, so, first off, if you’re looking for help and you connect with Coach Eric has we say, you reach out to coach Eric. If you want to find me, my website is there is a one-hour free training that I have up there that you can download. There is a quiz that you can take that looks at your behavior from an impact perspective. You’ll find it right in the top menu bar and there’s a way to sign up for our free private secret Facebook group. We’ve got a great community of men supporting each other. Those are guys who either don’t need or aren’t willing to make that next level of commitment to the group coaching program and a great bunch of guys. So, the mindful will get you what you need.

Powerful Eric: All right, well, Craig, thanks again. I don’t know, I feel kind of humbled now that I feel like I’ve come full circle, now I’m helping hopefully thousands of people recover as well and create a great life and to create a great life.

Craig: Healthy sexuality and a great life brother. Those two goals are interminably intertwined, meaning they, you can’t separate them, they’re too closely connected. Stop with the goal of not doing something. Focus on those two areas. Go where you want to go, and your life will change. And thank you so much for having me, Eric. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and your willingness to put yourself out there and share your story. And I just know, I mean, I know, I literally know personally how many people you’re helping. So, keep up the great work

Powerful Eric: Will do. And I would like to close with this quote from Zig Ziglar who says, “You are designed for accomplishment., you are engineered for success, and you are endowed with the seeds of greatness”. Stay powerful friends.

Narrator: Thanks for listening, if you’re struggling with porn or sex addiction, then contact or call (314) 717-0377 for a free, no obligation consultation. You are powerful.

Listen to this episode:

Wife of Sex Addict Speaks

Michelle Perra – Appeared on Anderson Cooper

Powerful Eric: Welcome to Porn Talk, this is Powerful Eric. The purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power, but this is not just about breaking addictions. It’s about breaking belief systems. We are bound by self-imposed in societal chains, break the chains, get empowered now. My next guest is my friend Michelle Perra. Michelle has appeared on Anderson Cooper; the Katy Couric show and has been featured in Bella magazine. Her life is helping people connect with a life they know deep down inside is possible. Her personal story has touched millions and is living proof that a woman and couple can survive and even thrive, during tough times and come out stronger and closer than ever. She says that she became a coach to help sex addicts after her husband got hooked on porn and prostitutes. Through her kind and inspirational approach, Michelle empowers and motivates men, women and couples to create the incredible life that they truly want to live. Help me welcome Michelle Perra. Welcome Michelle.
Michelle Perra: Thank you very much. It’s great to be here.

Powerful Eric: Great. I’m glad you’re here. Can you tell the listening audience a little bit more about yourself and how you got into all this?


Michelle Perra: Craig and I were college sweethearts and we have been married about 20 years now, we celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary this year.


Powerful Eric: Congratulations.


Michelle Perra: Thank you. But that celebration came from a lot of struggles and challenges and, wonderful times and some really terrible times. So, Craig has always the mindful habit or, you know, our program, our system was really born out of Craig’s major challenges and he likes to say his failures. And I would have to agree with that, but I like to talk a little more positive and say his challenges. So, really, I guess what had happened, we moved out to California, Craig lost his mind, that was it. He imploded and, lost his job, ended up in an inpatient rehab facility, and it was absolutely awful, wanted to kill himself, he was so depressed and so messed up. And you know, his addictions, his challenges were really sex, porn, drugs, lots of them, alcohol, not as much, but socially, definitely. So, anyway, lost his mind, ends up in an inpatient, has no job. We just moved out to California. I don’t work. We have two kids, young kids, and my world was just rocked. And I would think that what got me into it because, really, I started the whole thing, by my blog, which I don’t really update anymore. But, he was an inpatient and I went to them, I said, “okay, well what do I do?”. So, they just gave me a pamphlet for codependents anonymous and I was like, “are you kidding me?”. So, the assumption that I’m codependent because I’m with an addict, really offended me. Not that some people aren’t, not that we all don’t have some codependent tendencies, right? Because as humans we really do, and that’s reality. But just to label someone because you’re with an addict, you are codependent and you are messed up, just really didn’t sit with me well. So, I was really frustrated. So, then I went out and I researched other ways to help yourself. And then I came up with the trauma model, right? Which was first, I was like, “oh my God, this is so wonderful”. But as a partner, it just kept me getting stuck in that place of, that place of “I’m a victim, I’m a victim”. And that didn’t work either. So, I decided I wanted to save the world and I started a blog just to get my voice out there. And, it was actually pretty popular at one point. And people would contact me, and they wanted help and they’re like, “oh my God, your struggles and what you’re going through and how you’re coming out of it, I’m connecting with that so much.”. And so, it was at that point that Craig kind of wanted to be a life coach, and that was interesting. I was like, “okay”. And then through my blog, I got contacted by Anderson Cooper, the show, to go on the show. So, that’s kind of how the whole thing started. And then the Mindful Habit was born from there and it just got bigger and bigger. And we’ve just helped a lot of people, and so it’s been–

Powerful Eric: Yeah. I know you’ve helped a lot of people because I’m one of them, I am now a certified Mindful Habit coach under the Mindful Habit system so, I can’t even put into words, thank you so much because I never heard, I mean, I’ve heard your story, but not in the way you’ve just said it now. So, it’s got to be, I would imagine it’s got to feel really good that you took those lemons and made lemonade and now you’ve helped thousands of people literally around the globe. How does that feel?


Michelle Perra: It’s really amazing because we were in a really dark place. So, just picture this, so, it’s my nature to make lemons out if lemonade. I mean, that’s just my nature anyway. So, it is easier for me, right? Because, I’m not codependent, I’ll tell you that, I’m not passive, I just, I take a situation and I figure it out, always. But, you know, Craig is having this love affair with somebody else, he loses his job, wants nothing to do with his family, okay? We have no money, and I remember the person that we called to get help and Craig’s counselor was a little different. He wasn’t the traditional 12-step, oh, and also, we, 12-step, Craig’s life, 12-step never worked. He was in 12-step counseling, therapy and it never worked, and it would help for a little bit, but then it just never worked. And he would always keep going back to his addictive compulsive behavior. So, anyway, we are in this dark place, and this guy didn’t do 12-step or–it was just very untrad– it was just different. So, I have to drive him an hour and 45 minutes to get him help, okay? Each way, with these young kids. And so, we’re in the space and I literally, and I’m just giving the backstory, so I can tell you how it feels. I literally was so stressed out, like my legs were numb. I couldn’t feel like from my knees down, I was having a real physiological response.
Powerful Eric: Oh my gosh.


Michelle Perra: Yes. I’ve got bursitis in my arms and my legs. I couldn’t move them, it was just physically a toll, I had two young kids. I mean, Craig was literally insane. He wanted to buy a duplex for him and he was having an affair with a transsexual porn star and he wanted to buy a duplex and they were going to live on one side and me and the kids on the other. So, that’s what I was dealing with, okay?
Powerful Eric: Wow.


Michelle Perra: But mind you, I didn’t work and so I needed him to get on his feet and get a job so then I can go live my life and he could live his, okay?


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


Michelle Perra: So, and I guess the story there is when we’re driving so far, and we learned a lot and we started communicating, right? We just kind of learned a different way and started healing that way. But my point is, in that time, I was so stressed out and then he starts getting better and we’re kind of healing, I still don’t know that I’m a hundred percent staying, but I’m here, we’re healing. He is much, he’s healthy at this point. And then he says to me, “I want to be a life coach”. And I’m like, “oh my God, really? You don’t have a job, you can’t pay your bills and you want to be a life coach? That’s so lovely, it’s so wonderful.”. I don’t know what to do with that. But then at the same time, what are you going to be the dream squasher? And be like, “no, you have to work.”? And I guess you could but, watching him be miserable in corporate America for so long because Craig’s a little different, he’s creative, he’s unique, he’s amazing at the things, when he wants to do something. So, what was I going to do? What was I going to say? He’s like, “I want to help the world. I was so messed up and I did so many awful things. I need to– I want to make this right and I want to help other men keep their marriages, keep, you know, like stay married, not leave their kids”. So, what was I going to say? I was like, “okay.”. So, I started my blog because I was frustrated and all this stuff and then to see where that was and the place we were at and how low we were and how scared I was when he was like, “I’m going to be a life coach and I’m going to make– support us on that”, to now and where it’s built and how many families have been saved by us and how many men, Craig is like, helping be the best men they can be and the best version of themselves. I mean, it’s just, honestly, there’s nothing better than to know that you are helping, because that’s why I started my blog, to help. Even though I don’t do it anymore, I’m not really coaching so much because I run the back-end of the business. But to know that, that little blog started this whole thing, it’s amazing that how low and dark we were. We can be at the place we are now and be an inspiration for everybody else. It’s awesome.

Powerful Eric: That’s incredible. That’s an incredible story. Obviously, that was your lowest point. Tell me, what’s your highest point?


Michelle Perra: And I can’t pinpoint a highest point.

Powerful Eric: Let me help. Because I saw online, a photo of Craig at a wedding ceremony, there was a couple that was getting remarried.

Michelle Perra: That was amazing.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. Tell us about that.

Michelle Perra: Well, this couple had come to the Mindful Habit and they were in a bad place and through the Mindful Habit system, and I’ll tell you what’s really cool about this story too, through the Mindful Habit system and all the coaches, because they’re in the group coaching program. So, they work with everybody and they are at the place where they were renewing their 10 year wedding anniversary and they said, they came to Craig and asked if he would officiate the ceremony because they felt that the Mindful Habit system and Craig and the coach– that their marriage was saved because of the program and the work that they did and the transformational change that had developed through the program. And what was so cool is, they kept saying its new marriage, same spouse. So, it wasn’t like, “oh, a relationship”. It was a clear recognition that things had to be different, and we’re remarrying each other, but this time it’s different. It’s a new marriage. And that’s kind of what we say. Like when people are at these really, really low points and you know, the partners are like, “how could anything, I will never recover. I mean, I’m destroyed. I can’t move on. How can I ever trust again? Or how can I ever be in this relationship again?”. My instinct was to say the neat thing, but the neat thing about crisis, rock bottom, something that just can’t keep going on the way it’s going, it’s destructive, t’s bad. If you look at those things as opportunities and challenges and see where you can be different, where things need to be done differently on both sides, right?


Powerful Eric: Yeah.

Michelle Perra: And obviously on the man’s side, lots needs to be done different. That’s true, right? But on the partner’s side, there is a dynamic that we bring through our fears and insecurities and challenges and traumas and whatever it is, you know, and that’s why we also have our partner program because there’s growth that we as partners need to do. And when that’s done together, it really can be this new, amazing, wonderful thing. And the interesting thing is that without that crisis, you may never have took the time to work on yourselves, to the point where you’ve grown to where you are. So, I like to say sometimes, and it sounds awful, like I don’t think I would change anything, even though I wouldn’t want to go through it again. Like, it really was awful, at times, like, really. I wouldn’t want to go through it again. But at the same time, if things were different, we wouldn’t be where we are.


Powerful Eric: I totally hear what you’re saying, that that adversity actually made you guys stronger. It reminds me of a story I heard about a bodybuilder and he was asked, you know, how did you sculpt this body? And it was by, his answer was by going up against tremendous resistance, you know, tremendous resistance, every day. And so, that adversity is that resistance, and I love what you also said about, you know, turning those perceived failures and opportunities, and also, I like what you said about the marriage. How did you say, the new–?


Michelle Perra: New marriage, same spouse.


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


Michelle Perra: That was their, like tagline and they said, “we don’t want to do, renewing our vows, because this is a new marriage” and it was amazing. And so, when they emailed Craig and said, “we want you to officiate because we owe this to you”. It was like, “Whoa, that’s amazing.”. Or you know what another high point is? When you read, like when people review the program and when you read it and you read how much it has helped, our program. You know, Craig, and me, I downplay me, but no, and me, how it’s helped people. And now, what I find is really cool too, is okay, so you’ve got the men’s program, the addict program, and that’s been around a long time. Over the past year, we developed a specific partner empowerment program. And to watch these women heal in different ways, to watch them focus on their own growth and where they can do better for themselves and not just be reactive to their husbands’ challenges and whether you stay or go, there’s that growth that needs to be done. So, to watch these women do that and to watch, you know, what else is so super cool? I just have to say this and I just, when you said high point, actually I know for me what has been so awesome, when I hear him on the group coaching calls with the women, the partners, I hear him supporting them and empathizing with them in a way that he didn’t give me at the time, ever. Now is different, but at the time I just sometimes I get choked up because I’m like, “wow, that is so cool.”. Because when I was looking for help, I, it was nice to hear from a man who had gone through it and now is better. Like I liked hearing from women, but I wanted the man to say, “yes, I was– I did things wrong, but now I can do things different, and this is how I do”. There was something powerful about hearing from the guy as well. And the women I think do enjoy hearing from Craig and our other coach Tara. But there’s this power in Craig and when I hear him being so supportive of them in such an awesome way, I’m always like, it just recently, it’s just meant a lot. And it’s interesting, it’s almost like a next phase of healing that trauma that like I had gone through that I’m totally, I’m okay with it. I’m at a totally different point, but there’s this extra level of healing that has happened recently that’s been just, I would say that’s one of my high points because it just makes me feel so good because I started all of this to support the women. You know what I mean?


Powerful Eric: It’s incredible because it all started from your blog.


Michelle Perra: Yeah. And you know what? It’s really basic and that was probably in 2011. Yeah. When I started it and my blog spurred me going on the Anderson Cooper show.

Powerful Eric: Tell us about that, tell us how was the experience going on Anderson Cooper on national, I’d say, well CNN really is international, to tell the world about how your–

Michelle Perra: I don’t think it was on, it wasn’t on CNN because it was his talk show, it wasn’t his news show. So, he had a talk show at one point. It was very popular. It was like the Katy Couric show, it was very popular.


Powerful Eric: Okay, so national television. So, you’re going on national television to interview on a TV show.


Michelle Perra: And mind you, it was at the very beginning. So, one of the big things in this space is, you know this, is being open, being honest, letting people in, letting them know my husband is a sex and porn addict and has, you know, had sex with not one or two hookers, prostitutes. You know, letting them know all the awful things my husband did and why I’m still there, right? It’s just a whole, anybody listening I’m sure can completely empathize. It’s terrifying. It’s awful. You know, you fear the judgement, you fear the view on your kids, you fear rejection from your family and you fear the people just, “why you staying? Why would you do this? Why would you do that?”. The telling you what to do. I mean, it’s terrifying. So, when I was asked to do it, it was a big decision whether or not I decided to do it. I remember saying, “Oh my God, it’s going to be on TV.”. And I had to call now. So, I’m from the east coast, we’re in California, Anderson Cooper is taping in New York. I can’t go to New York and not tell my family and I mean, I guess some people could, but I couldn’t do that because that’s lying, and I don’t like lying. Okay. Obviously, I don’t like lying. So, I had to call my parents and be like, “hi, I’m going to be in New York for two days and I’m going on the Anderson Cooper show. Do you want to know why? Because my husband had sex with prostitutes. So, I got to go, bye!”. Awful, and I remember actually, them being pretty supportive. We just decided not to talk about it too much, but to support me going on the show. At this point they knew that Craig had lost his mind and was getting better and healthy. So, they just chose not to dive too deep out of respect for me, but I hadn’t really told people in the community, I know I’m in a close-knit community. And I would say that the fear of being out in the open probably was my hardest thing that I dealt with through all of this. And I’m serious about that. That was like re-traumatizing my wounds every time I’ve thought about it because it’s terrifying for everybody to know, right? And in my head, if too many people know, Craig’s never going to get a job again, right? Because financial security is a very important need of mind to be able to pay–


Powerful Eric: Sure.


Michelle Perra: I don’t need to be rich. I don’t need to be going to Hawaii every other day, but I need to pay my bills, okay? Have a car, you know, those things. So, the experience was terrifying, but once I did it, I said, “okay, that wasn’t too bad.”. And then the show aired, a few people saw it and they were like, “cool.”. And it really wasn’t that big a deal. And every single time we’ve been on a show, it has gotten better and better. And over time, again that’s been, Craig has been wanting to scream it to the world and be like, “I’m done lying. I’m done with the shame. I want to help.”. I was the one holding them back for– every year it got better and better. But now, I mean, it’s so freeing now, to be able to just be open and honest and feel really confident and powerful about, “yeah, this is what happened, and this is where you could go”. And I found that people in the community at the beginning, there were a few people that were judgmental, I will agree. But in the end, nothing happened. And even one of them that stopped talking to me for six months, a very good friend of mine, and just over time, she forgot about it, didn’t care and, you know, whatever. And it just, I realized that the more people got to know us, the more that they really respected what Craig was doing and what we were doing and actually found it– they actually were extremely, they found it very inspiring. And–

Powerful Eric: It is inspiring, it’s very inspiring. And I want to thank you again because, by doing this show, Porn Talk, a lot of my friends are going to find out about this through this show and so, I can relate to what you’re saying about that fear of like, how are people going to judge me? How are people going to react to all this? So, thank you.


Michelle Perra: Well, you’re welcome because what I found is the more we talk about it and I love talking about it now, because it’s my life, this is reality. The more we talk about it, the more people start coming to you with their own problems.


Michelle Perra: I don’t need to be rich. I don’t need to be going to Hawaii every other day, but I need to pay my bills, okay? Have a car, you know, those things. So, the experience was terrifying, but once I did it, I said, “okay, that wasn’t too bad.”. And then the show aired, a few people saw it and they were like, “cool.”. And it really wasn’t that big a deal. And every single time we’ve been on a show, it has gotten better and better. And over time, again that’s been, Craig has been wanting to scream it to the world and be like, “I’m done lying. I’m done with the shame. I want to help.”. I was the one holding them back for– every year it got better and better. But now, I mean, it’s so freeing now, to be able to just be open and honest and feel really confident and powerful about, “yeah, this is what happened, and this is where you could go”. And I found that people in the community at the beginning, there were a few people that were judgmental, I will agree. But in the end, nothing happened. And even one of them that stopped talking to me for six months, a very good friend of mine, and just over time, she forgot about it, didn’t care and, you know, whatever. And it just, I realized that the more people got to know us, the more that they really respected what Craig was doing and what we were doing and actually found it– they actually were extremely, they found it very inspiring. And–


Powerful Eric: It is inspiring, it’s very inspiring. And I want to thank you again because, by doing this show, Porn Talk, a lot of my friends are going to find out about this through this show and so, I can relate to what you’re saying about that fear of like, how are people going to judge me? How are people going to react to all this? So, thank you. PpppYeah. And also–


Michelle Perra: And that I found neat.

Powerful Eric: Right, and also, this is helping people that are, you know, alone with this and think that, “I’m the only person in the world going through this, I’m addicted to porn, addicted to compulsive sex, no one will understand, I’m a freak.”. They’re judging themselves. And you know, there’s a saying that says, “we are as sick as our secrets”, and by us talking about this now, hopefully this will empower others to reach out for help.


Michelle Perra: Well, it does because I did my blog, right? And then I went on the Anderson Cooper show, and then we decided to start a podcast, that the whole, our podcast started with us together on the podcast talking to couples, because helping men and women from the couple’s perspective was really important to us from the beginning. So, we had a podcast and the more we talked about it and people would then connect with us, they were like, “wow, I’m not alone. You guys know what I’m going through”. And it really, really was powerful. People still listen to those old episodes and they, they find it very helpful. So, I mean, it’s powerful to put yourself out there because there are so many people going through what you’re going through or what you went through. And, it really helps people say, “I don’t have to be ashamed. I don’t have to hide. I can get help and I can, own it.”. Because you have be able to own it, right?

Powerful Eric: Yeah, you do have to own it and, I like to talk about a study that was done by the University of Montreal in Canada. They attempted to do a study at the university on the men that were acting out the porn and the men that were not acting out the porn and they had to abandon the study because they couldn’t find, they couldn’t get a control group. They couldn’t get a group that was not acting out actively to porn. So, this is, that’s not to say that those all those guys are addicted or– but it’s just show that this is a huge problem.

Michelle Perra: Yeah. And it’s an issue we don’t talk about and you know, we don’t talk about it. It’s kind of like when, especially when I first started, when people would ask what we do, even when I was comfortable with it, I’d be like, “yeah, you know, we own an international life coaching company and you know, my husband’s– the niche is like”, and then my voice would go lower, “porn addiction”. What am I doing? Why would I do that? Again, I was the one that was a little weirder about being out in the complete open, not with people that I wasn’t weird with people that knew, you know, I had a bunch of friends that were super supportive. I wasn’t weird about that at all, but with everybody in the community and everybody in the world, you know, my voice would go lower when I would say it. And, I really had to consciously say, “you know what? I’m not going to do that.”. But that’s reacting off of other people being weird about it.


Powerful Eric: I mean, that’s why I named this show Porn Talk, I wanted to make it very clear, we’re going to talk about compulsive use of porn, compulsive sex, it’s porn talk.

Michelle Perra: Well, I mean, it’s a hot issue. It’s a problem that so many families and people are just struggling with. And again, like I said, I mean, the more and more people come and talk to me or it would be like, “I have somebody that needs your program”, you know, and it’s just like, it’s wonderful to be out there because then people can feel more comfortable starting to own up to their problems and they come to you and, I’ve just realized that there’s no reason to hide with this, because it’s such a big problem.

Powerful Eric: So, what would you say to the guys that are struggling with the compulsive use of porn and sex? On how this affects their partner, and we’re not trying to give anybody a guilt trip or anything like that, but just, how did it affect you as the partner of the sex and porn addict?


Michelle Perra: Well, I mean, in lots of ways that’s a very, it’s a very loaded question because there’s a lot. But, the hardest thing is the lying, right? So, the biggest thing is really, when do I believe what comes out of your mouth? When do I not believe what comes out of your mouth? You know, like I look out the window and the sky is blue, that’s what I see. But, really it was green this whole time. So, how do I know if what I’m seeing is the right color or not the right color. And that’s terrifying. And that’s the big, it’s the lying, that’s a big deal, and the partner just not knowing, when I can trust, when I can’t trust, and you know, you leave the house, I don’t know what you’re doing. And this, I mean, and it depends on the level of, you know, someone who’s a porn addict is a little different than somebody whose husband, well, you know, is buying a duplex for their significant, I mean–


Powerful Eric: Yeah, that’s a whole other level.


Michelle Perra: And he thought it was a good idea. He thought it was a brilliant solution. “I’m going to buy a duplex.”. And I like when he tells the story because he gets really upset, I laugh because to me, it shows how messed up he was. Like, you can’t not laugh at that.


Powerful Eric: Yeah, it’s so absurd.


Michelle Perra: It’s so absurd that it’s funny. Like, I’m not even going to be upset, I’m gone. But, when he tells it, it’s a lot harder for him because he remembers being in that really, really dark place. But the lying at the time, it’s just the lying, the lying is really hard. And men who have addictive behavior, tend to lack some empathy. You agree with that?


Powerful Eric: Yeah.


Michelle Perra: There’s a lack of empathy,

Powerful Eric: Empathy being, putting yourself in the other person’s shoes.


Michelle Perra: Right. So, instead of seeing me as being annoying, because I want you to get help, I need you to get help, I can’t take this. Let’s grow, let’s get help it grow and be better people, right? To have empathy, for where the partner is coming from, because empathy is a big thing. Empathy in the lies.


Powerful Eric: Great. So, what would you suggest to guys that are having challenges in their marriage or their primary relationship, to do or not do to repair the relationship?

Michelle Perra: Honestly, partners, they want to see you doing something about it. So, it’s the people that say, “well, I can just do it on my own”, and some can, but a lot of times you can’t, if you’ve tried over and over again, it is really hard. So, I’m getting into a program, and not just taking the easy way out, “oh, I’m just going to get a book.”.

Powerful Eric: If I may, I was talking to a sex therapist that was on Oprah and he said, well, “I’ve never worked with any addict that was able to recover on their own.”.

Michelle Perra: And it’s true now that the strength of 12-step is the community, right? The problem that I have with 12-step and that kind of stuff is, it kind of keeps you stuck in that, “hi, I’m Michelle, I’m an addict”, right? And we don’t want to keep focusing on the negatives on–


Powerful Eric: No.


Michelle Perra: You can go, you can speak to this very well.


Powerful Eric: Oh yeah, I was always into self-development stuff and big names like, Tony Robbins and things like that. And then, I go to the 12-step meetings and basically kind of learn the opposite instead of saying, you know, “I’m powerful Eric”, I’m saying, “hi, my name is Eric, and I’m a sexaholic”. And then we go on to describe the most, the worst behavior that we’ve done, that’s how the beginning of every meeting would start. And it was totally dis-empowering, and I agree with you.


Michelle Perra: And kind of traumatizing.


Powerful Eric: Yeah. It was traumatizing, and I agree with you. The strength of it, is the community for sure.


Michelle Perra: Absolutely.


Powerful Eric: But I was in and out of 12-step programs for about 20 years, did not work for me. And then I found the Mindful Habit system.


Michelle Perra: When you think about it, right? When you’re constantly like, I like to say it like this. If I tell you don’t think of the pink elephant, think of anything else besides the pink elephant, don’t think of the pink elephant. What are you going to think?


Powerful Eric: Of course. Pink Elephant.


Michelle Perra: And in your question that I totally veered from was, what should these men do? Find a program that helps you grow, helps you be a better person. Because really as we know, the addiction is the symptom.

Powerful Eric: Yes.

Michelle Perra: It’s not what’s really going on. So, when we focus on the symptom, you’re putting a band-aid on it, it’s kind of like, you know, it just, you’re putting a band-aid on it. You’re not dealing with the real problem, and so, my suggestion is what partners and women want to see, we want to see you being a better person. We want to see you taking care of yourself, when you as men are doing something to better you, working on “why am I doing this? Why am I, you know, not able to control myself? Why am I stuck in this pattern?”. And when we work on it, we become better people. Which is one of the things that Craig was passionate about creating this program.

Powerful Eric: That’s the perfect segue. Can you tell me how has all this strengthened your relationship with Craig? How has this made you better people?


Michelle Perra: Okay, that’s a good question. Really, it’s brought us to a completely different place. So, it takes the addictive behavior and kind of puts it on the side and said, I’m going to be a better person, that’s the goal. Now, and stopping the behavior happens as a result of that. Craig, being able to own his mistakes, stop hiding from them, us learning how to communicate, me taking responsibility, not responsibility for anything wrong or anything really wrong in the relationship, but I was bringing a dynamic to the relationship as well. That wasn’t fitting with Craig, even though I didn’t do anything, right? I didn’t do anything wrong. He did it all. He did everything, I did not. But the reality is, I was reacting in a way that was not helping, or it wasn’t working with the man who was pissing me off. So, I could just fight that battle all the time, and we did for, you know, I don’t know how many years that was, like, you know, I got married when I was, you know, 23 and there was a cycle that would always happen because I was reacting to him in a way that was just fueling him in a way. So, I had to take it upon myself to say, you know what, “I can only control myself. I can’t control him. I’m going to stop trying to rely on him and I’m going to grow myself”. And he did the same as well. And we just learned two be in a different place, communicate together.


Powerful Eric: Yeah, so can you–


Michelle Perra: I’m sorry, own our behavior individually.

Powerful Eric: Can you expand on that, so, you said you learned to communicate better, how did that come about or, how did you do that?


Michelle Perra: Well I, you know, we were just tired of that same cycle, right? So, like we’d get into a fight, and Craig can be vicious when he’s, you know, which a lot of people can, he can be vicious. So, then I would go in the bedroom and I would just start crying. And then he would, the same sort of pattern every single time. Then he would come in and I’d be like, “oh”, and he’d be like, “ah”. And then, we would have this communication, but it was based on this, him putting me in this one down position and then him coming in and being bigger than me and saving this, you know, and bringing me up. And then we would make nice-nice. And then we’d be okay for a while. But it was that same cycle. So, we were tired of that cycle. So, we had to learn a different way to communicate. We had to learn to communicate where both people had a perspective and neither one is wrong or right. It’s how they feel and learning to stop and listen and me learning, even though he is a complete ass, and Craig can– ugh. But I trigger him, my face triggers him, my voice triggers him. It’s like the projection of his mother that he’s put on me. It’s very challenging for me, but I’ve had to learn to step back and say, “okay, well I am– obviously this isn’t working, so I need to learn to own my part of the–“, even though I’m just acting and frustrated because he’s annoying, right? But that’s my perspective, and so learning to be on the same level and having empathy for the other person’s position and learning what makes each of us feel emotionally safe in a communication, in life and really, trying to respect that his needs are as valuable as mine and vice versa.


Powerful Eric: Yeah, well, tell us what resources are out there for the partner of the addict. You were talking about the partner program.


Michelle Perra: Yeah. So, we have created now, a partner program, which is a program for the partners of someone dealing with, you know, compulsive sexual behavior. And, it’s been really, really powerful. So, it’s an online program, just like the men’s program. But it’s strictly for the partners, and what’s neat about it is that, they walk through the Mindful Habit system, just like the men would, just like the addict would. And what’s neat about that is, well there’s two things in that. First of all, like we talked about, the addiction is really the symptom, right? Really in the end, it’s born out of our traumas, our fears, our insecurities, all that stuff, we develop bad habits, right?


Powerful Eric: Mine was fear. Yes.


Michelle Perra: Right, and insecurities, I’m sure. And it’s this place where we develop bad habits and negative and harmful and destructive ways of coping with our life. For you, it happened to be porn or for Craig, everything. But, and for a partner who was like, “well, I’m not an addict”. There are other bad habits that we have created, maybe our emotional reactions or responses, the way we deal with stress, we might not be, you know, acting out sexually like our partners were, but we are doing things that have created an extremely negative response because we’re not reacting. We find ourselves in this position and we’re traumatized. We can’t get out of bed, we’re like, our life is over and none of us should ever feel that our life is over for a man.


Powerful Eric: Right.


Michelle Perra: Nobody’s dying on my watch. There are no partner that is going to crumble and die on my watch. So, there’s an empowerment piece because if your man wants to get help, great. We have the Mindful Habit system. And what’s amazing is that you then go through the program together so, you can each be learning the tools and the techniques and the lessons at the same time. So, that’s how you learn to communicate from the same backbone, I guess, from the same perspective. And that can be powerful because when they do the exercises and they talk about it and they can communicate, they learn that communication, they learn all that stuff. So, that’s really powerful. But then at the same time, let’s say your partner doesn’t want to get help or doesn’t want the Mindful Habit system or whatever, it’s a place for you to get help from a place where we teach you to be empowered and not a victim, not traumatized.


Powerful Eric: Yes, absolutely.


Michelle Perra: You’re not codependent. You don’t have to stay traumatized, you’ve suffered trauma, you have been victimized, but you’re not a victim. And so for me, it’s just such a healthier place to be, and that’s what our program is all about. And what’s great about it is, there’s videos, there’s step by step, there’s worksheets and Homework and exercises and group coaching calls and a forum. It’s really a community, it’s been quite powerful, and women have really, really loved it and that’s been awesome.

Powerful Eric: Michelle, how do people find the program? What’s the website?

Michelle Perra: The website is the, and you can find under programs, I think, you can find the different programs that we have. Yeah.

Powerful Eric: Well, Michelle, I am just thrilled to have you on the show and again, really, like I said, I’ve never really heard your whole story and I really owe you a great deal of gratitude for starting your blog, starting the Mindful Habit system. Now, I’m a coach under your guys’ program. Thank you. Thank you for being on the show.

Michelle Perra: Well, thank you for having me and thank you for being an inspiration and being powerful. Powerful, Eric. I love it. It’s awesome to again, like you asked before, to have been a reason why you’re where you are today, and your family is together, and you have kids and it just, there’s nothing better. So.


Powerful Eric: Awesome. Well, Michelle, we’re closing the show and I always like to close with, I love Zig Ziglar. I don’t know if you’re familiar with them at all or not, but he’s deceased now, but he’s a great guy. He’s done a lot of awesome material and I like to close with this quote from Zig Ziglar. Zig says that you are designed for accomplishment, you are engineered for success and you are endowed with the seeds of greatness. Stay powerful.

Listen to this episode:

Develop Porn Character

Larry Cowsert. Speaker and Author of “Character”

Introduction: Welcome to Porn Talk with powerful Eric, end the porn habit, reclaim your power. Here’s your host, powerful Eric.

Powerful Eric: Hello, powerful people, welcome to Porn Talk, this is powerful, Eric. The purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power, but this is not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems. We are bound by self-imposed and societal chains, break the chains, get empowered now. Today we are going to talk about how to develop and discover the extraordinary character within you. Yes, you. I am so excited about today’s guest, Larry. Cowsert. The definition of a renaissance man is a very clever person who is good at many different things. Larry is truly a modern day renaissance man; Larry’s list of accomplishments is so vast that I don’t have time to list them all. He started his first year of college at age 17 studying music and drama, he became a father at 18, he now has five children and five grandchildren. In the eighties, Larry rode camels near the pyramids in Egypt and said prayers at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. In 1992 he started a successful, unique software company called New Star Collaborative Technology. In 1999 he was contracted by Honeywell Aerospace to develop medical diagnostic applications for long duration man space flight, which could possibly be used for the upcoming Mars missions. He is friends with astronauts and even met Jim Lovell from Apollo 13 Fame. In 2002 he started a recording studio called 12 Bar Productions that became wildly successful, hosting Grammy winners and platinum selling artist from New York, LA, and the Midwest. During all that, and up until today, he serves as a business consultant, coach and private counselor to many executives in companies. He has written over 100 business plans and even won an award for the best business plan of 2001. He is the author of the book, “Character: Lessons Learned from a Character about having Character”. Now, he is a writer, speaker and coach helping people discover and unleash their extraordinary character. Ladies and gentlemen, help me welcome Larry Cowsert.
Larry: Applause, gosh, I didn’t know I had all those attributes. Thank you Eric. I appreciate it.

Powerful Eric: You’re welcome and like, I said, I didn’t even list them all, those were just some highlights. Tell the listening audience a little bit more about yourself, where did you grow up?

Larry: I was born in a tiny little town on the Ohio River called Rosa Claire. They are in what is called the Shawnee National Forest and I was born there, born at home. An interesting little insight, my grandmother delivered me, at our home. That was my introduction to the family. We lived all over Southern Illinois, my mother and father pastored a church the day they got married and my father stayed in the ministry, in fact, still is at 88 years old. So, we moved around an awful lot and, in fact by the time I graduated high school at 17 years old, I think we had lived at that time, we had lived in, I think it was nine towns, fourteen houses. I don’t remember what all the statistics are, but we moved a great deal. So I, I started doing things in business and at a very early age, started realizing that I was doing a lot of reading and a lot of research and just had this incredible thirst for knowledge and it turned out that, I was able to translate that into other things as I grew up, got older and not necessarily wiser, but, I got older and more experienced and experience leads to wisdom.

Powerful Eric: Moving that much had to be challenging, how did you cope with that?

Larry: It was incredibly difficult. In retrospect, at the time, you know, as kids, water rolls off our back, you know, we think about things like that, but our perspective, when you’re 8, 10, 12 years old, your perspective is the weekend or next month. You know, Christmas is five years away, always, rather than just a few months. In those days it didn’t manifest itself within me, visually, subconsciously it had a real effect on me because it was difficult, as I got older and older, I’ve realized that it was not so much difficult to make friends, but I didn’t want to make friends because if I got very close to somebody and they became a very good friend, the odds are within six months to a year of that date, we’re going to be moving somewhere else and I had to start all over again. So, I reached a point where subconsciously I was saying, okay, I’m going to be nice, I’ll be cordial, but I really don’t want to make friends. And I remember the first time, the first very close friend I had was in the first grade. And I can remember him to this day, I even remember what he looks like. And that was Richard Brown and, Richard and I, were kindred spirits because I was born legally blind and when we were in all in the Illinois where my father got his training and hospital administration, there was one black family in that entire town and that was the Browns. Richard was my age, he was in my class in first grade and I was an outcast because if somebody threw a ball at me, you know, during recess they hit me in the head because I didn’t see it coming. And I was wearing these incredibly thick glasses and I was kind of a geek. I wanted to be like my dad, so I was going to first grade in a starched white shirt and a tie and of course that, you’re asking for a beat down, you know, I had, at the time I didn’t think about it, I wanted to be like my dad, but all the other kids are like, who do you think you are? But the only other kid in class who I was relating to was Richard Brown because he was an outcast. I mean this is 1956, okay. And so, here’s this young black boy and me, and we were inseparable, we were very close friends. I remember a couple of people from Mcleansboro, Illinois where we lived about three years after that. I don’t remember any of the other people in my class. I don’t remember any names of the towns, until 1962, when we moved to Benton, Kentucky. And, so from the first grade to the seventh grade, I can remember one name and because I just got to the point where I’m like, it’s too much trouble.

Powerful Eric: The guys that are listening to this now, their way of coping, is with sexual acting out, pornography, things like that. It’s been said, there’s a quote, “the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection.” Now, Larry does not have challenges with addictions, but he’s an expert on character, and so what do you think about that? “The opposite of addiction is connection.”
Larry: Actually Eric, I would almost say that I created an addiction within myself. I was addicted to not creating friendships, I put myself in a position where I didn’t want to be hurt emotionally, I didn’t think about it at the time. And in fact, it was, I was far into my adulthood before I realized it and what really triggered it for me or opened my eyes to the thing was, in a conversation, I was having with some friends in messenger on Facebook. I was talking about the fact that I, you know, it was just a shame that I hadn’t made more friends. And some of the people that had friended me on Facebook were saying, “man, we want it to be your friend, but you just seemed so distant.”
Powerful Eric: Man, you know, the word that’s coming to me, two words are coming to me right now, being vulnerable and intimate. And I don’t mean intimate in a sexual sense, you know?

Larry: I understand. I know exactly what you mean.

Powerful Eric: Vulnerability and intimacy, and I know from the work that I do, a lot of people with abuse, that’s the wall they put up. Like they don’t want to be intimate with anybody, they don’t want to be vulnerable to a relationship.
Larry: There was a book that I read in 1970, it was probably one of the most profound communication books. The title of the book was, “How to have Intercourse without Getting Screwed”.

Powerful Eric: Oh, that’s priceless.

Larry: And we lose the, we don’t think about the fact, you know, somebody says intercourse and immediately our mind goes to the bedroom between the sheets. And the fact of the matter is any involvement is intercourse a conversation is, intercourse, working on your computer is intercourse, you are transferring data to and from. So, it’s an exchange. Intercourse is simply an exchange. That’s the other thing that, after reading that book, it also helped enlighten me a bit that during all those times, it wasn’t that people didn’t want to be my friend, I wasn’t being friendly. So, I was, it was my fault, it was purely within me. Like, anything that we do and that’s what I have discovered about so many people and in doing my business counseling, my opinion is that the addictions that we create are to substitute for something that’s lacking in our lives. And it’s not, well without putting too fine, that’s your area of expertise. But what I find in talking with these men and women who are talking about these problems, they have put themselves in a position not to accept the reality. They are single minded of purpose, you know, this was caused by them, if you watch the mainstream news or anything like that, they’re telling you, you know, you’re either this or this and you know, if you don’t agree with them, you’re all outright. And if, you know, and if you listen to a different in another station, and if you don’t agree with them, your socialists left. And that’s just not true and if we buy into those external forces, rather than looking inside ourselves and saying, “Hey, who am I really?” “What drives me?” “What makes me happy?” “What makes me content?” “What bothers me?” “How do I feel about this?” And, and now, now we’re getting back into that. I had a few of these, dozen or so, who started calling me their business therapist because, and I just got to that question, you know, “how do you feel about that?” That’s kind of the joke of being a psychologist, you know, and, “how that make you feel?” And, but that’s exactly what we get down to at the end of the evening, as I’m having these conversations with these people, or I’m letting them do the monologue and then if there’s input that I have, I give it. But the question always becomes, well, “why do you feel that way”? And when I asked that question, it forces an answer, it forces them to look inside themselves because now it’s about feelings. You know, they’re coming at me, we’ll here’s the logic of it. You know, this fact, okay, those are the facts that you’re dealing with, but how’s that make you feel?

Powerful Eric: Yeah, we are actually emotional, we make decisions actually based on our emotions, people think that we’re logical creatures, but actually we’re emotional creatures.

Larry: That’s exactly right. There are those of us who can look at things pragmatically because of the circumstances that we live in. Others look at it purely from an emotional position because of the circumstances they’ve lived in and so that’s that, all left alt right sort of– You’ve got those who “it’s no big deal” and then you’ve got those, “Oh my God, the world is going to come to an end in 12 years”. You’ve got those people on either side and it’s all because of how they perceive their life and the circumstances that they’ve had to live in.

Powerful Eric: And Larry, you clearly have crafted a great life and great character yourself. What suggestions do you have for someone who’s struggling in life, either with addiction, divorce, hardships, things like that?

Larry:  Well, this has just popped into my head, but as far as addiction, when I became an adult, this is when I’m 23, 24, 25 30, I’m working in the business world. There was a 180-degree polar shift that occurred and how I was doing things because suddenly in my twenties I wanted everybody to be my friend and I wanted to be everybody’s friend. So, I would take people at face value. I didn’t look beyond that moment in time to say I’m not so sure about this person. So, I made friends with a lot of people that I probably shouldn’t have. I–

Powerful Eric: People with shady character?

Larry: Shady character would be a real good way of putting it, ill repute. And what caused me to back away from that was it’s something that, my grandfather had told me years ago. And that is if you have more close personal friends, than you can count on one hand, then you don’t have any because you’re telling too much to too many. And the other thing that he would say is, “hey, look, if they’re talking to you about somebody else, they’re talking to somebody else about you”. So, I, and I let those rules fly out the window and I started, you know, oh, this guy is such a great guy, he’s a such a close personal friend. When did you meet him yesterday? And so, that was, you know, that was an issue that was, that shift that I went through and I had to readjust, you know, the pendulum swung the other direction because I was so desperate. So, my addiction at that point became grasping for friends. But what ultimately occurred, we had, I see all these people who have these great and wonderful attributes. They are good people and they’re doing good things, but they submarine themselves. You know, they, they’re doing it and not, not because they want to. I don’t think there’s, I don’t think there’s a person who says, I’m going to go to the boat tonight and lose every time dime.

Powerful Eric: Well, let me, let’s change gears here. How does one develop character, and can it be learned?

Larry: You can’t learn good character just by sitting down and reading a book, character. good character is with in every single per, unless you are a psychopath.

Powerful Eric:  Okay.

Larry:  Somewhere down inside a psychopath buried behind all of that garbage that creates that mental condition is good character.

Powerful Eric: Yeah.

Larry: Getting to it is you need one of those bombs they used in Iraq. It goes through 15 feet of concrete to get there because you’ve got to go through all that psychopathy, if that’s a word, but you’ve got to get way down deep inside there and then you’re only assuming that you can make it work because there’s so much baggage.

Powerful Eric: Boy, what you’re talking about there I can totally relate to because when I was deep in the addiction with porn, I felt like I was just buried in crap.

Larry: Yeah.

Powerful Eric:  And like the real me was just completely buried and I felt worthless and helpless and shameful and it was just, you know, the good parts of me were just completely buried.

Larry: And that is what happens to everybody to a greater or lesser degree. We, some of us because of our upbringing can be I as an example, I think racism is an addiction. I think it is an addiction and it’s an attack on character, on your good character. If you are a racist, it is a bad character trait. And there are character traits, we’ve all heard that term and we can all have good character traits and bad character traits. It’s like that old story about the Indian chief talking to his son and he says inside you are two wolves, there is the good wolf and the caring wolf. And then there is the evil wolf that will fight and kill, and the son asked, which one is stronger? And he said, it depends on which one you feed. And that is exactly what character is all about. We, if we are building up those quality character traits and using or even subduing or trying to eliminate the bad character traits, we will become a better character. The problem with so many, and I am, what I’m, what I am now trying to do is work with people to discover their good traits and their bad traits. If you don’t know what the bad traits are, if they truly are not brought to the surface to say, here are some of the like showing up late constantly, that’s a bad character trait. It’s a trait. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. It just means you don’t have enough respect for whoever it is you’re meeting with to be there on time, let alone early. So, it’s a bad character trait. The, so you have to identify what the good ones are, what the bad ones are, then you need to start working you, you spend 80% of the time building up those good ones.

Powerful Eric: Yes.

Larry: And 20% of the Times decreasing the banker.

Powerful Eric: Yes, and that’s why I’m doing the show is because frankly, most addiction programs out there focus on starving the bad wolf and not feeding the right wolf.

Larry: But here’s, here it is using that same analogy, here’s what I have come to realize. Starving the bad wolf just makes it angrier and causes it to fight harder. And it’s a human trait. If you are backed into a corner, it’s fights or flight that says a lot about who you are. If you get to the point that you’re, it’s fleeing, then all that’s doing is damaging your character even more, because now you perceive yourself as a coward. So, you’ve done even more damage by walking away or running away. I, so, I believe strongly that you, you feed the strong character as you build them up, you use the more, if you are using your good character traits more and more and more, there’s less time to use the bad character traits.

Powerful Eric: Yes. Is it ever too late to develop character?

Larry: No, absolutely not. I, in fact, I mentioned in the book, I talk about my grandfather going to a funeral because for those who haven’t read the book, and we’ll talk about the book, it may be a little later if Eric’s kind enough to bring it up. But, there’s one chapter in there where my grandfather goes to a funeral of a guy he hated in my grandmother was confused by the fact, and she was like, you hated this man. Why you going to his funeral? She’s said, he says, I want to make sure the son of a bitch is dead. Pardon? Pardon my French. But when he, the fact is when he got there, and that was a terrible character flaw for my grandfather. He, this man hurt him. He, he did him an injustice and it not, it didn’t just hurt him my grandfather. The problem for my grandfather was it hurts his family. It hurt my grandma, it hurt my aunts and my father. So, this guy had no use for the, my grandfather had no use for this man. But when he got there, and he saw this man’s family in the pain, they were in, it softened his heart. He realized at 58, 60 years old, whatever he was, wow, I’m not the only one that’s hurt. You know, they, I, they will never see him again. And his, it softened his heart and it changed his character about that. And he took a little different approach from that point on about how he thought about people.

Powerful Eric: That’s awesome and that is in your book Character?

Larry: Character.

Powerful Eric: So, let’s talk about that. What are some of the projects that you’re working on now these days?

Larry: Oh, well, obviously,” Character Lessons Learned From A Character About Having Character.” That’s, about things that I, and that’s on Amazon right now, on iTunes, and I books and a lot of bull–

Powerful Eric:  And I have both the physical copy, which if you can see here on YouTube, have got that and I’ve got the audible version. It’s a great, really a great–

Larry: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. I, it was a lot of fun doing it. Because it brought back a lot of great memories and a lot of the lessons that I learned in that period of time, the, I’ve had a lot of demand, not just from the readers of the book, but from family members who have said, well, remember when he used to say, thus? So, there’s a book 2 coming out of all these things that he would also say, but I’m also doing, I’m coming out with a YouTube channel, or there’s another book called “Extraordinary Characters”, and it is interviews with people from World War II vets who were on the beach at Normandy to those who helped liberate the death camps, to those who were on the beaches of Iwo Jima and watched the flag go up. There are, people who survived those death camps that I am interviewing. I’m interviewing some astronauts, buddies. I’m interviewing. But these are people. It’s not just, these are not people who are extraordinary people per say, they are people that have the extraordinary character to have survived or to have overcome or to have lived through or to have experienced extraordinary things in a great or humbling or frightful circumstance. They’re not famous. They’re not household names. You know, we talk, we can talk about Elan Musk or we can talk about, you know, I met Jim Lovell and Jim because of the movie Apollo 13. The name Jim Lovell became a famous name. But that’s the fame that he got from a failure. By the way, let’s not forget that Apollo 13 was the most successful failure in aerospace history. They, but it was a, it was a group of brilliant men who caused them to be able to come back. So, there were a thousand extraordinary characters involved in bringing those men home. None of whom really are known by name.

Powerful Eric: There’s a little quote I like to say, “failure equals opportunity” on guys that are struggling with addiction and that in the, you know, they fall off the horse and we say, you know, failure equals opportunity. And that’s just what they did.

Larry: We need to go back with whether it’s porn, gambling, I, and I’m not taking away from porn because I know that’s a bit, that is a huge star. It’s one thing to go out to one of the casinos and see people sitting there playing blackjack or what. Porn is not something that’s a public display, It’s something that as we were talking about earlier, it’s in the dark. It’s in the quiet, you don’t want It is a, it is probably much more prevalent than we even realize. I mean there was a reason that 30% of the websites on the Internet are porn sites.

Powerful Eric: Yeah.

Larry: When you consider the billions of people that have web addresses and have email addresses and are on the Internet and members of Facebook and all that sort of stuff and there’s that much porn, somebody buying it or borrowing it or sharing it or whatever the case may be.

Powerful Eric: Yeah.

Larry: So, it is far worse than gambling. It is. Oh, and by term worse, I mean more ubiquitous, it is a much larger thing than probably drugs and alcohol and gambling combined. But it’s done in the quiet. It’s like that. It’s, you know, the guy who is out at a party and drinking and over drinks, is not the problem. In his, he is not experiencing a problem. He needs to control that. But the fact of the matter is the guy who is the real problem is the guy who’s sitting in a one room shared or you know, an apartment or something like that and he’s drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels quietly by himself. And that is what I would equate to the guy with the porn, with the laptop sitting in his bedroom. And so, those are frustrating things that they are all issues and none of them is, none of them deserved more or less attention. But what we have to do is be able to recognize the fact that it is a character flaw, and there’s nothing was in it I think. Well in fact, it, even Jimmy Carter, when he was running for president, did the interview in playboy and he said, I would be lying if I said I didn’t look at a beautiful woman. And you know, and a lot of people said, you know, I’m going to vote for that guy because at least he’s honest, you know, because that’s, you know, that’s, men were built for that.

Powerful Eric:  We are biologically hard wired.

Larry: Exactly.

Powerful Eric: Tell me, how does someone get on your YouTube show, Lunchtime with Larry?

Larry: Once a week I will be interviewing somebody, of extraordinary character. Not that they’re famous, but they’ve just done cool things or are cool people. So, to get on the show, contact me, my email address is Cowsert is spelled C.O. W. S, like in sunshine, E.R.T, like in Tango. But, My website is, I tried to make it easy for everybody. It’s going to be huge because it is going to start promoting my seminars, workshops and training sessions that are called extraordinary character. And it is, as you mentioned at the top of the show, how I can work with people to unleash that extraordinary character that is within them. We all have it. There is not a person out there who does not have extraordinary character within them. They just need to number one, recognize that it’s there, number two, nurture it, number three, stop feeding the bad character that’s in there, and then number four, rise to occasions that they never thought were possible.

Powerful Eric: Larry, I cannot thank you enough for coming here for this interview. You really are an extraordinary character. I’ll close with the quote from Zig Ziglar who says, “you are designed for accomplishment, engineered for success and endowed with a seat”. Stay powerful my friend.

Narrator: Thanks for listening. If you’re struggling with porn or sex addiction, then contact remember, you are powerful.

Listen to this episode





Sex positive Sex Therapist on Porn

Angela Skurtu Sex Therapist

Narrator: Welcome to Porn Talk with powerful Eric, end the point habit. reclaim your power, here’s your host, powerful Eric.

Powerful Eric: Hello power people, welcome back to Porn talk, this is powerful Eric. The purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power, but this is not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems. We are bound by self-imposed and societal chains, break the chains, get empowered now. Today we have with us Angela Skurtu, Angela is a certified sex therapist, speaker and author of two books, helping couples overcome infidelity and premarital counseling, a guide for clinicians. She also runs her own podcast, The About Sex Podcast. Welcome Angela.

Angela: Hey, thanks for having me.

Powerful Eric: You’re welcome. Angela just got back from Bangkok, Thailand, but before we talk about your trip to the sex capital of the world, tell me, how did you get into this field?

Angela: Well, actually it’s an interesting story. I come from a very conservative background where sex just, if it was talked about, it was very shamefully talked about and it was causing a lot of harm for people actually, instead of having a real positive sex view on sexuality, they had kind of a negative view. So basically, I was taught growing up, you avoid sex until your marriage or if you do, you get STDs, you’re going to get pregnant or you’re going to die, you know, some sort of big guilt trip, right. And I just saw a lot of harm, that, that that kind of mindset was causing for people in different walks. Like when people would get married, they get married too soon, it seemed, because what they really wanted was to have sex, because most people will really enjoy it, it’s kind of a big deal. And they were just struggling, they would struggle later in their marriage and sexually, this was the common thing. So, I had a bunch of girlfriends who waited to have sex until marriage and then a year later they’d all talk to me and say something along the lines of, “yeah, I’m just having sex for him, I’m not getting anything out of this, this isn’t very fun”. And I thought to myself, “well that’s a problem”. Because you’re supposed to have sex, I hear more than once in a relationship. So anyhow, I kept seeing that and then I also saw issues with, acceptance and inclusion of people in the LGBTQ population. And so yeah, like I got into sex therapy because I cared about those issues and I had a lot of compassion for people who wanted to have a good sex life. And my whole job is just how do I help people have a really positive outlook on sex and enjoy each other for like the long haul because, you know, we live a really long life now too.

Powerful Eric: So, let’s go back to your trip to Thailand, what was the highlight of your trip? Or did you see any sex workers while you were there?

Angela: Oh, of course I did, I saw the lady boys, they were great, I actually paid one for a picture. No, they were great. I had a lot of fun, I didn’t see a lot of like actual sex workers, I saw people who did massages, but they were doing the legit massages. Now there was at least one story when my friend was offered like, oh, it’s funny. So, I made friends with this gay guy and we were hanging out the whole time and one of the ladies when I went to the bathroom was trying to offer him a hand job, but he thought she was playing rock, paper, scissors with him. He’s gay and he doesn’t, he didn’t care. You know, he’s like, oh, she’s interested. And what’s funny is they thought we were boyfriend and girlfriend too. So, to me I was like, wait, so you waited until I left to go to the bathroom to offer him this. I mean, there’s some little shady that’s going on there, but he was like, no scissors, please. Thank you.

Powerful Eric: Oh my gosh.

Angela: It was a great time.

Powerful Eric: So, the lady boys was awesome?

Angela: Oh yeah.

Powerful Eric: I pulled some facts from Wikipedia about Bangkok, Thailand, that they had legal prostitution there from 1351 all the way to 1767, it was legal and taxed, and the state ran brothels. Since 1960, prostitution in Thailand has been illegal, been estimated 6.4 billion a year in revenue and that’s all a significant part portion of their gross domestic product.

Angela: Interesting, well I just think it’s interesting, you know, sex work is such a difficult topic of conversation for people, because I think you know, people have a lot of negative viewpoints on it, but you know in the United States it was actually, it was a common thing here too. It’s not just something that happened in Thailand and some of what I personally think would be helpful is if it is legal, but if it’s represented. What I found for sex workers is that if they are represented and they’re protected, like in Vegas for example, well it’s not Vegas, it is in Nevada, but in the state of Nevada it is legal for prostitution and there’s laws to protect those people so they have to get tested on a regular basis, they need to, people’s like “junk” is essentially examined to make sure everybody’s safe and there’s cameras everywhere too, to make sure that there’s not dangerous things happening. And in a situation like that, is it ideal? No, but at least the, the sex workers are protected in the people going to those places are protected. Whereas in situations like, I’m guessing sex trafficking is happening in places like Thailand or even honestly, sex trafficking is happening a lot here and those situations, there’s no legal ramifications because it’s already done under the table. So, it’s a lot more dangerous for people when it isn’t legal in the country.

Powerful Eric: There is every state in the United States, there’s sex trafficking going on. In Saint Louis, Missouri, there’s sex trafficking going on, it’s one of the things I wanted to talk about is, there is the healthy use of porn, but does that, that where’s that porn come in from?

Angela: There’s more control over things when it’s legalized, but when, when there are illegal markets than there are spaces where people can kind of fit through the cracks. It’s kind of like the whole alcohol prohibition thing, you know, alcohol was prohibited in the United States for a time and then it didn’t stop people from drinking alcohol, they just moonshine in their bathrooms, right? People have vices and they’re going to do what they’re going to do, but if it’s mainstream and it’s protected, that’s the word I was thinking of, protection. When people are protected, then you have a little more control over it and you have a little less of a black market because it’s more available. I’m not saying there couldn’t be a black market for alcohol, but I haven’t seen much. Whereas there is a black market for things that are illegal, and the hard thing is that people have their vices, whether they liked them or not or whether he society likes them or not. To go into your question about, is there a healthy porn usage? Yeah, there’s healthy porn usage, there’s porn where the adult stars are consenting to what they’re doing, and some of them even really enjoy their jobs, you know? And as far as in a relationship, there can be healthy porn usage as long as everybody’s like, aware and consenting to that in the relationship too. So where porn usage can be somewhat problematic is when it’s either taking away from the relationship in some way, so the person has their own sex life, but they’re kind of using it in lieu of a relationship with their partner. But many men and many women do watch porn on a relatively regular basis and it doesn’t necessarily affect their relationship. It’s when they basically have created a divide where, nope, this is just how I’m getting it and I’d never having sex with you or never really engaging in it with you. Or if it’s kind of being kept secret and this is the case for, anything in a relationship, if there’s something you’re worried about, your partner knowing, it’s likely either a behavior you probably shouldn’t be engaging in or a behavior you should talk to them about. So, like if you have that little flare in the back of your head, that’s like, would my partner get mad at me if this happened? You should probably think about it and kind of either fess up or explore the behavior. Does that make sense?

Powerful Eric: Yeah, what has your experience been with the people that you work with? I found a stat that said they interviewed all these divorce lawyers and they found, in the survey at least, that 60% of the cases of divorce, were either because of pornography or it at least had a significant contributing factor to the divorce. What’s been your experience with your clients?

Angela: So, I mean, I haven’t looked into that particular study, but I do know that I try to look at sex in a broader scope of things. So, was the porn there because they stopped having sex and porn was just being used because they had nothing else? It’s hard to say one thing causes another thing but I will say that, you know, I mean there are unhealthy versions of porn usage and, like I said, going back to, if it’s keeping you from having a sex life or, I mean in some of those cases though, it could be that their sex life had died a long ago and the porn is just a part of what they’re doing to cope with a sexless relationship. So, I don’t know if the porn specifically is what causes it, I’m sure it can be a contributing factor, but it could be a contributing factor for a lot of reasons.

Powerful Eric: Right, that’s one of the things we always talk about is that, the porn is a way of coping. A lot of the 12 step programs, for example, they focus on, you know, they count how many days you’re not doing the thing, they focus on the problem and rather than what’s behind it.

Angela: Yeah, it’s kind of like a band-aid, right? So, there are a lot of ways people cope with life, right? And ideally you don’t want to just be coping, you kind of want to be living and living a fulfilled life. And I remember talking about this when you were on my podcast, right? It’s, not about the “not doing”, it’s about what am I doing in my life that makes me really happy and feel purposeful. And it’s not that, I mean, I don’t know if anybody’s really feeling a lot of purpose masturbating to porn. I think it’s a coping strategy or it’s something to do while you’re waiting to have sex with your partner, which is fine. But as far as living a fulfilled quality of life, I mean, you need, one, you need more than one coping technique, right? Like if, if it’s one among many, the way the therapist kind of see it as like, okay, if porn is one, maybe not that I want these to be the only coping techniques, but if the alcohol is one among many, if exercise is one among many, if self-care, like getting a massage is one among many, not necessarily the happy ending kind just to be fair. Although you know, if that’s okay in your relationship, you guys do you. But just that like as long as there’s multiple coping techniques, then usually it’s a good thing, but anytime one thing becomes your “go to” coping mechanism, then that’s a problem. And going back to living a quality of life versus a coping quality of life, anytime you’re just coping with life, like I really want my clients to think about, “wait, okay, take a step back. am I just coping with all of this? “What do I need to do to make my life fulfilled”? Does that make sense?

Powerful Eric: Yeah, and that leads us to this next question. What is the debate that is going on right now about sex addiction and porn addiction?

Angela: Well, you know, it’s two camps of thought and there’s some similarities to the thought and there’s some differences, okay? So, where people are similar is that, we all believe that the combining of shame and sexuality and secrecy causes harm. We all agree with that. That like sense of like, “I’m hiding this thing and I can’t just be my full self.”. So, that is actually an area where that debate is on the same page, where the disagreement is, is in terms of like the behaviors, is this actually an addiction or is this a poor coping technique that is being used to address something like depression or anxiety? And so, with the mental health professionals that are sex therapists are saying is, no, usually this is a coping technique for some bigger diagnosis and we want to address the deeper problem that depression, that anxiety, that whatever the struggle is in life. Whereas the people on that sex addiction side are saying, no, this is really a behavioral addiction. It releases Dopamine and Oxytocin, which it does. There are some chemicals released when you’re having sex.

Powerful Eric: Oh, I know it does.

Angela: You’re aware–

Powerful Eric: All the decades of porn use.

Angela: Sure. Of course, it releases those chemicals and, yes. So, they’re saying yes, there can be a type of chemical addiction. But again, where that thing is separated is that, you know, a lot of those behavioral addictions, we as sex therapists are like, “well…”. I mean, you know, so, I’ve already explained it. Is it more of a coping technique? Yes. It releases those endorphins, but, so does exercise, so does sex with your partner, so does, I mean, really a lot of things. So, we don’t want to stop people from engaging in those behaviors that are actually somewhat healthy just in the right context. Does that make sense?

Powerful Eric: Absolutely.

Angela: Yeah.

Powerful Eric: Let’s take a little a step back.

Angela: Alright.

Powerful Eric: We have a mascot. You saw the picture of the mascot?

Angela: Oh yeah. Is that a penis with eyeballs?

Powerful Eric: Eyeball.

Angela: Oh, I guess one eyed willie, so, that makes sense. It goes together.

Powerful Eric: And so, that’s something that we’re putting online, we want people to submit their names. And I love that one-eyed willy, there you go.

Angela: That’s already a name out there.

Powerful Eric: Yeah. But that could be his name. Some of the other ones. I mentioned some of this last time, but here’s a new one. His name could just be Dick.

Angela: Oh yeah. Or Dick Junior.

Powerful Eric: Junior, yup. How about Richard Head? Now, believe it or not, I had this job, there’s a client list and there actually was a guy’s name on the list. His name was Richard Head. What parent would do this to their child? You really named your child dick head?

Angela: I don’t know. They didn’t think about it, I guess. I don’t know. You know, I do suggest people name their penises, but I want it to be usually a positive thing. So, I would go for kinder, Dick names.

Powerful Eric: Oh my God, I haven’t thought about this, just till now, since you mentioned it. High school, I had some girlfriends and not that they ever played with it, but–

Angela: Never played with your dick?

Powerful Eric: For whatever reason I named him Jackson Brown.

Angela: Jackson Brown? See, I tell my client ladies, I’m like, you should name it, then you become friends, you can hold hands. It’s going to be a great experience. I know it’s silly, but like I’ve noticed that people have some, I don’t know, like sometimes women can feel like a disconnect from the penis. And so, I want to find ways to help people really feel connected and loving towards each other, including each other’s genitals, believe it or not, I think that’s a part of a healthy sex life, is feeling safe and connected.

Powerful Eric: So, are you saying embrace the penis?

Angela: I’m saying embrace it. Yeah, absolutely. But, I mean in more ways than one I suppose. But no, I just, a lot of what I work on with all my couples is how can you have a really healthy, positive relationship with each other’s bodies? And that includes your sexual body, right? And so, that includes a man’s penis, that includes a female’s genitals. I think men tend to actually have a really positive view of female bodies, but it can be women and I don’t think they do it on purpose by any means. I think sometimes we’re socialized as women to kind of, we’re allowed to be, we call it like the Madonna whore complex. You’re allowed to be either like this perfect pristine, you know, like model of I’m not sexual at all or you’re like the whore, you know, and there’s no in between. And I think that’s an unfair way for women to be sexually. We can be anywhere in between. You can be an intelligent woman and still like sex and enjoy naming a penis. It’s all allowed.

Powerful Eric: Right. How does a sex therapist treat sexual acting out problems and, do you tell them, do you believe that it’s a disease?

Angela: So, yeah, I mean, I even framed it that way on purpose. So, we don’t have a specific diagnosis for it. We call it sexual acting out behaviors. And the way we do it is by treating the illness, which is, whether it’s depression, whether it’s anxiety, whether it’s bipolar, it could be OCD. Thinking about OCD, so OCD is a more extreme version of anxiety, but it involves compulsive thoughts and behaviors, right? So, think of porn from that perspective. Porn could be an OCD, a form of coping with OCD, that’s very compulsive. Think of like, you know, the compulsive of like, “I have to go look at this porn, I have to go do this next thing or I have to act on this.”. And so, the treatment for OCD is mindfulness, which is why I love that you’re in a mindfulness program cause it’s to slow people down, it’s to get them back in their body, it’s to get them to make– to actually make a decision consciously, not just react. In OCD, sometimes people are reacting impulsively and not thinking before they act. And so, the act of mindfulness is slowing that process down and giving the person the option essentially to make a decision that makes them feel good at the end of the day, especially if this person is like engaging in porn and at the end of it they feel completely guilty, or like a worthless person. I don’t like, that’s actually not even a great coping technique if you feel that way in the end, right?

Powerful Eric: That was me unfortunately.

Angela: I mean, that’s why you’re doing this, you recognize there was this cycle of unhappiness at the end and you wanted more for your life and so, we do a very similar thing, which is how do we create a quality of life? How do we really address that illness, whatever it is? And a big part of my treatment would be as well, how do I get the couple to have a good, healthy sex life too? Now, I always come from a very sex positive approach because I have seen some people, I don’t know if you experienced this or not, but just some of what I’ve experienced from people who’ve been in some sex addiction programs is, they will kick the habit, but they will struggle to re-include a positive sex with their partner.

Powerful Eric: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Angela: You’ve seen this. Exactly, and so, one of the pieces that’s super important for me is a sex positive approach, healthy sexuality. How do we have a great sex life that if we don’t want it to include porn, that’s fine, but how do we still engage with each other and grow in our sex life so that we’re happy and healthy? Because to me, just cutting a habit is not a full quality of life, you know?

Powerful Eric: Absolutely. And that’s the thing I love about what you’re saying is, you don’t just address the symptom and that’s the programs that I was in prior to the mindfulness program, was it was just all about the symptom, addressing the symptom. How many days did you not do the symptom, you know, so, I love what you’re saying. That’s awesome.

Angela: Well, great.

Powerful Eric: What is the difference between a porn problem and working on infidelity issues in your practice?

Angela: Well, now that is a good complex question, isn’t it? So, an infidelity can be defined very broadly. So, first I just want to define infidelity, infidelity is anything you do that’s outside the boundaries, the agreed upon boundaries of your relationship. Okay? And why that’s broad is that for some couples watching porn isn’t an infidelity. They both think it’s fine, so, long as they’re both aware of it, right? But in other relationships, if somebody finds out that you’re watching porn, it does feel like cheating. So, it can be in some relationships, it may not in other relationships,

Powerful Eric: A lot of guys out there, you know, their wives are very upset that their husband is watching porn, that was not the case with mine. She was actually, she was okay with it, but it was the effect that it was having on my life. And she didn’t realize the effect that it was happening on the relationship. So, I just wanted to throw that out there, that if you’re one of the guys that your wife’s okay with it, but your life is in shambles, you know, it’s all about how it affects your life. But anyway, continue.

Angela: No, actually, I mean I can throw in the diagnosis stuff on that, right? So, like in the DSM, which is how we diagnose people and actual illness isn’t a problem, unless it’s affecting your personal life in some way. So, your work life or your family life, right? So, you’re describing that first one, where like, okay, maybe your family doesn’t, they’re not bothered by it in and you’re still going to work. But if you personally are feeling like a wreck as a result of your behaviors, that’s enough of a reason to go in for some help. Absolutely. Yeah. So, it may or may not be porn, that is an infidelity, back to the original question. It may or may not be, like some people will fish around on Facebook for example, and like each other’s posts and other people, if their partner knew about that, they’d be hurt by it. And so, why it’s really important to clarify some of this is that I’ve noticed that couples, monogamous couples are not having really direct conversations about where those lines or boundaries are. And there’s so many different ways now that we can cross boundaries with social media, with porn, with even flirting. Not that I think people are constantly flirting with each other, but what’s the line between friendly, being friendly and flirting? And even, if I ask a couple that question, they’ll have very different interpretations. But everybody in monogamous relationships seems to assume that their partner is on the same page about where that is. So, when it comes to infidelity, it’s really important for couples to have honest conversations about, well, this is where it feels like we’re crossing the line so, that there is not only clarity but intentionality around here’s how I’m intentionally protecting our relationship, I didn’t know that would affect you that way. I never want to do this to hurt you. And so, that could be an a lot of arenas. But if there’s no clarity then, in some ways people could feel as though they’ve been cheated on when nobody’s kissed another person, when nobody’s touched another, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn’t always have to be a sexual act. It could be as simple as you had a lot of emotional conversations and you didn’t share any of this stuff with me. Why were you sharing this part of our marriage with somebody and I was not– I was clueless?

Powerful Eric: So, what is healthy sex or a healthy sex life?

Angela: I put these questions out of there, like really boggling myself. I’m like, what are you thinking? No, no, I know the answer. So, this, so I mean, first off, a healthy sex life does involve both an individual sex life and a couple of sex life. It’s fine for people to masturbate and have their own sex life. So long as people are aware of what that is, and the boundaries are defined clearly. Okay. A healthy sex life is defined by a couple in terms of what they want out of their lives. But I was thinking, you know, when I think about this, I think of several factors. I think of sexual chemistry, that feeling of I want to have sex with you and when we do have sex, I feel a connection between you. Part of healthy sex life is the emotional connection, not just the sexual connection. That feeling of I like you, I enjoy spending time with you. I want to go on dates with you and actually see you sometimes outside of like the work of a relationship. A healthy sex life includes affection and different ways that we show love. Many people are aware of the love languages, right? I think is healthy sex life includes the ability to both give and receive all five of the love languages. I know in the book it mentions people having one or two, but like really when people are only sharing love and one or two ways, then they’re missing the other three. So, to be honest, I think it’s a level or degree of how much people want each of those love languages. But I wouldn’t want to live even though gifts. So, there’s the five love languages are time, touch, words of affirmation, acts of service and gifts, right? So, gifts for me is low on the spectrum, but if i lived i a relationship where I never got gifts, where I never got roses, I think I’ll be a little unhappy, like, why you never give me things. Like, why don’t you not think about me in this way? You know? And I’m, I know that other people do too. So, a good sex life includes the ability to both show and receive love and all of the forms. And that includes affection too, and that includes sex. And in terms of communications, this why it’s so complex and I have a job, it’s great. It’s the ability to communicate what you want and desire and to be able to take that feedback from each other and do something about it. And all of those areas are different ways that I might have to assess and help couples to adjust their sex life so that it can be more fulfilled and connected. Because if you think about it, all right, say you have you, okay, you’re having sex, but like maybe you’ve got a kink you might want to try. We have to be able to communicate. I’m kind of interested in this thing. What do you feel about it? And then there has to be able to be a dialogue about that. Well, I might be open to this, but I don’t know how I feel about this aspect of it. And if there’s not that, then you know, then there’s no ability to grow and the sexual relationship. And that’s another piece is that it’s growing and it’s evolving in some way throughout your lives. You’re not having the same sex that you were having at 17, that hopefully you’ve developed some mechanical skills, but even the mechanical skills aren’t as important as some of those other factors.

Powerful Eric: Great, what would you say to somebody that is struggling that, you know, isn’t this something kinky? But if they feel bad about it, what would you, what would you tell them?

Angela: I’d spend a lot of time exploring why the Kink, they feel bad about the kink because a lot of kinky stuff isn’t that big of deal. To me, I would want to do any sort of harm reduction if it’s something that’s dangerous or unsafe in any sort of way. But really, I mean, I as a sex positive therapist, any kink is fine that people want to explore so long as both people are consenting to it and it’s not causing any sort of mental or emotional harm and any sort of way. But like say if somebody has a foot fetish, well, there’s nothing wrong with incorporating a foot fetish. I mean, all right. In what ways would you be able to engage in that in a way that feels good to you? All right, maybe I’m willing to wear heels, but I’m not wearing those boots, you know, like have a negotiation around it. But the reality is none of the fetishes or kinks are necessarily evil. Some of them are really fun ways to spice up our love life. The only thing that’s important to me is that there’s consent for both parties and it’s adjusted for each person’s comfort level. So, say foot fetish, right? Some people are open to wearing shoes, but they might not be as open to their partner sucking their toes. And if that’s a part where they throw it, yeah, I just don’t feel comfortable, then we respect those boundaries. But there’s different levels of engaging in each kink too that sometimes people aren’t aware of. And so, you know, I think going back to that, one of those factors of just being able to communicate and negotiate for something that feels good for both parties is a really important skill for having a healthy sex life. Because there’s plenty of ways to engage and kinks where both people can get something out of it.

Powerful Eric: Right. And what would you say to a listener that hasn’t sought any help that is in the, you know, is searching right now that feels like through, they’re addicted to porn or they’re addicted to compulsive sex. What would you tell that person?

Angela: Well, I mean I hope you get help, but be very cautious about the help you get. Any shame based, or fear-based training is really harmful for humans. Like shame is a toxic emotion and it actually ends up causing people to behaviorally act out in worse ways then if they’re deeply accepted and using like a form of self-compassion. So, whoever you pick somebody who’s taking more of an acceptance, compassionate approach. I love the mindfulness approach because obviously that’s more of that acceptance and compassionate side of things. But—

Powerful Eric: But 12 steps, are you good on that?

Angela: To be honest. I’m not a big fan of the 12 steps in any of the capacities. That doesn’t mean they’re not, I don’t want to like shame them because like I’m not ashamed person. So, like for some people the 12 steps have been very good for them and if they’re helping you then all power to you, use them. But I personally am more of a fan of the harm reduction approach because it takes the, it takes a mindset of, we understand that people have different devices. We accept that that’s going to be a part of your life. How do we look at your life and reduce the harm around these vices rather than saying, you’re a terrible person for wanting these things like sex? Why would you be a terrible person for wanting sex? Oh, why would you be a terrible person for wanting to see a naked person? Naked people are very delicious and wonderful to see, you know? And so, there’s got to be a lot of normalizing, like I would want you to find somebody who’s very normalizing and sex positive is super important to me because, yeah, in the end, a healthy sex life makes people happy. That’s why I’m in the job that I’m in. I love getting a person to that or a couple to that space where they’re feeling fulfilled again. And I’ve got to say it like, from what I’ve seen in terms of people who have a healthy sex life, they’re the happiest people you’ll ever meet because they, they’ve learned to advocate for themselves in a very vulnerable and difficult topic. And so, once you learn, advocate for yourself, they’re telling you can rule the world.

Powerful Eric: Awesome. Tell us about one of your books that you think might be helpful.

Angela: Well, I think all of my books are helpful in different ways. So, the premarital counseling book is good for people who want to know what a healthy relationship looks like, yes, it’s covering like what to do in the beginning stages, but it also just talks about five habits for healthy relationships and how to keep the spark in a relationship. So, at any time and your relationship reading that would be helpful. The Infidelity book is good for people in crisis. People who recently felt like their partner has cheated because again, it’s still covering that healthy relationship aspect of things, but it’s talking about how to heal when it feels like somebody has lied or betrayed your trust. And so, I’d say both are great just in different circumstances.

Powerful Eric: Great, and how do listeners get a hold of you?

Angela: You can reach me at That’s my website. Or you can check out my podcast at

Powerful Eric: Awesome. Thanks for listening to porn talk. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit. Aristotle stays powerful. My friends.

Narrator: Thanks for listening. If you’re struggling with porn or sex addiction, then contact remember, you are powerful.

Listen to this Episode

How I Cured My Porn Addiction (and you can to)

Powerful Eric was addicted to porn for decades.

Announcer: Welcome to Porn Talk with Powerful Eric. End the porn habit. Reclaim your power. Eric has been in twelve step programs for almost twenty years with little success. Then one day he stumbled on the science on mindfulness to combat addictions. Powerless Eric died and Powerful Eric was born. Learn from Eric’s mistakes and get empowered now. Let’s join Powerful Eric.

Powerful Eric: Hello, powerful people. Welcome to Porn Talk. This is Powerful Eric and I’m with William Duffin aka Happy Medium Will. The purpose of this show is to help you end the porn habit and reclaim your power. It’s not just about breaking addictions, it’s about breaking belief systems. We are bound by self-imposed and societal chains. Break the chains. Get empowered now. Welcome, Sir William.

Sir William: Thanks, Eric. I’m happy to be here.

Powerful Eric: William and I have known each other for a long time. We’re great friends, and I like to call him Sir William of Duffin. My son even, he’s turning four. I’m sorry, he just turned four.

Sir William: Yeah.

Powerful Eric: And he even calls William Sir William. It’s funny. But Sir William, what are you a knight of?

Sir William: What am I a knight of? Well, I guess you could say I’m a knight of metaphysics. I have practiced and taught concentration mindfulness for over twenty years. I even teach class called The Will to Change is the Power to Heal, which teaches that you can change your thoughts and heal your own body. So I have to ask you, in turn, how do you get away with calling yourself Powerful Eric?

Powerful Eric: Well, before I answer that question I gotta state that a lot of people online don’t like that I call myself Powerful Eric. I get a lot of negative social media comments like, you know, “You’re just an average guy. You’re not even average. You’re not powerful.” And really negative comments. People are generally angry about me calling myself powerful. I thought to myself, what if I called myself Pitiful Eric?

Sir William: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Powerful Eric: Or Powerless Eric. I bet you I would have zero-

Sir William: Problems?

Powerful Eric: … negative feedback. But to answer … going back to answer what your question was, there’s a story behind why I call myself Powerful Eric. I had problems with pornography since I was very little, but I’m gonna start much later in life; about when I had got back to see a friend of mine who had cancer. She was in remission. I was traveling at the time. Her name is Heather. I had been gone traveling for my job and when I got back I made a lunch date with her to see how she was doing.

Powerful Eric: The day that we were supposed to meet, I was acting out with pornography all morning and I lost track of time. So I called her and I said, “Hey, Heather. I’m sorry, something came up. I’m really sorry. Can we reschedule?” She said, “Well, sure.” But I never called her back to reschedule. Soon after that I ran into a mutual friend. The friend said, “We tried to get ahold of you. Heather died.” I was like, “What are you talking about? I just talked to her.” She’s like, “Yeah, she died.”

Powerful Eric: I chose to act out to pornography rather than being with my dying friend. There was a lot of big red flags along the way that said, “Eric, you have a problem.” But this was one that was like, I’m never gonna see my friend again because I was acting out to porn.

Sir William: Well, can you … would you mind telling me a little bit about what led up to that?

Powerful Eric: Leading up to that? I have spent countless hours acting out with pornography. I had wasted days. I call it burning days.

Sir William: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Powerful Eric: I have burned days, weeks, months, years acting out with pornography. I have recorded in a journal a day that I had woke up, started out acting out to pornography, did not eat, and literally acted out all day long. The kicker was that it was an absolutely beautiful day. It was a gorgeous summer day, and I’ll never get that time back.

Powerful Eric: You know, what could I have done with the time and the money? When I was acting out, I would feel almost catatonic when it’s going on. When I burn a day, I would feel lifeless and dead and worthless. Burning days feels like a dear friend gave me a priceless gift and I just flushed it down the toilet.

Powerful Eric: Then there’s the money. If I had invested the money I wasted on porn, who knows what fortune I would have today.

Sir William: What’s in-between there? What I’m really getting at is what led you to where you are now? Between the wake up call of your friend dying and you missing out on big chunks of your life. So how did you get from there to now wanting to help other people?

Powerful Eric: One day I woke up in a padded room.

Sir William: Literally?

Powerful Eric: Yeah, I was … I woke up kind of dazed for a minute. Like, where am I? I’m like, “I’m in a mental ward’s padded room.”

Sir William: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Powerful Eric: I was in there voluntarily. That’s another story. So they needed the room and a nurse came rushing in. She said, “We got a live one! You gotta get out.” I wish I could say that I was speaking metaphorically, but I am not. I was literally in the mental ward’s padded room. I felt completely and totally hopeless and worthless. The psychiatrist said that, “You will be on heavy antipsychotic drugs the rest of your life.”

Sir William: Wow.

Powerful Eric: I felt numb. Like, “What the hell is happening?”

Sir William: Okay, so that was the nadir of your … very low point of your journey. How did you climb up out of that whole and end up here?

Powerful Eric: I saw a therapist. I was on some serious antipsychotics. I was on antidepressants, antianxiety drugs; I even was on a drug to help alcoholics stop drinking. I was not an alcoholic, but it helped mildly with the porn addiction. I had a spiritual cleansing done. I had a kind of exorcism done. I tried a new therapy called EMDR, the Eye Movement and Desensitization and Reprocessing. That was kind of helpful, actually, with some limited success. I saw a sex addiction specialist that I saw on Oprah.

Powerful Eric: So I did paid phone consultations with that specialist. He said that I needed to go to twelve step meetings for sex addiction. I told him, I said, “I will do anything you’re asking me, but I’m not gonna go and talk to a group of people. In front of a group of people and talk about how I masturbate to porn all the time.” He said, “I’m sorry to hear that, because I’ve never met anyone that’s been able to overcome an addiction to sex or porn on their own.”

Sir William: Really?

Powerful Eric: Yeah. So I went.

Sir William: Wow. Then how did you end up with this new program?

Powerful Eric: Unfortunately, I took the long, hard road to get there.

Sir William: Yeah.

Powerful Eric: I, unfortunately, listened to the specialist. He said I needed to go to twelve step meetings. So for the next twenty years I went to SCA, Sexual Compulsive Anonymous. Then I went to … that wasn’t working, so I went to SLAA. That’s Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. That wasn’t working, so I went to SA, Sexaholics Anonymous. I was having some challenges with money, so I went to DA, Debtor’s Anonymous. I went to CoDA, Codependents Anonymous. I’m not an alcoholic, but I used AA meetings when I couldn’t be there … or my other meetings weren’t available. I went to Al-Anon. I did ninety meetings in ninety days. I had numerous sponsors.

Powerful Eric: I gotta say, you know, I’m forever indebted to those people and those programs, because they got me through some serious times; but I was still acting out with porn.

Sir William: What have you learned since then? What enables you to help others?

Powerful Eric: Well, one day, thanks to my friend and mentor, Craig Perra, I discovered how to use the science of mindfulness to break addictions. I tried it and it worked. No, it was not immediate. It actually was a lot of hard work.

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: But I did finally stop acting out with porn. I still have challenges. In this mindfulness program, you do not label yourself. At twelve step meetings, you introduce yourself like this: Hi, my name is Eric. I’m a sexaholic. Then, you go on to describe one of your worst behaviors that you’ve done.

Powerful Eric: Then I was creating a screen login for the mindfulness program. For twenty years, I’d called myself a sexaholic or a sex addict, and various other disempowering labels.

Sir William: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Powerful Eric: When I was creating my screen login, I was kind of pissed off and excited.

Sir William: Right?

Powerful Eric: I was kind of excited too at the same time. I’m like, “You know what? I’ve been calling myself powerless for twenty years.” I put Powerful Eric as my screen login. In that moment, Powerless Eric died and Powerful Eric was born.

Sir William: So that was one of those moments of epiphany for you? An awakening.

Powerful Eric: Absolutely.

Sir William: Okay, well I appreciate you sharing your personal story. Convince me this is a problem that’s out there that a lot of people have.

Powerful Eric: A study that was done at the University of Montreal. They were gonna do a study on the effects of pornography, and of course you need a control group-

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: … when you do that. They had to abandon the study. Why do you think they had to abandon the study?

Sir William: Because they couldn’t find any college students that weren’t already looking at porn?

Powerful Eric: That’s right. They couldn’t find any-

Sir William: Oh yeah, of course.

Powerful Eric: … that were not actively using porn. That’s just one stat. Another sad stat is the average age of someone viewing porn was, at the time, ten years old. Now there moving that back even further. That just makes me really sad, because you know … William, I don’t know about you-

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: … but I think to myself, when I was a kid if I got ahold of a Playboy. Oh my gosh. I really thought I had something.

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: But now these poor kids, really young kids, are getting exposed to hardcore porn.

Sir William: Because of the internet.

Powerful Eric: Because of the internet.

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: We all carry … we’re actually carrying-

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: … a library of porn around with us-

Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: … in our phones.

Sir William: Well, then that leads me to ask how can your program help people? Especially young people?

Powerful Eric: Well, we use the science of mindfulness. I mean, there’s a lot of tools that we use, but we use the science of mindfulness. In a nutshell, mindfulness is a large umbrella term. Under that umbrella you’ve got things like meditation, martial arts, focusing, being present. One of the new ones that I’m certified in now is tapping. It’s the emotional freedom technique. It’s were you tap on pressure points. Of course, you’re a pro on this topic.

Sir William: Well, I am. One thing I wanna say is that what you’re saying is kind of exciting because it sounds like we’re gonna be doing some more shows.

Powerful Eric: Oh, absolutely.

Sir William: Okay. Tapping and all those other things. So I’m looking forward to learning about these techniques. But that is true that I practice and teach
mindfulness. It has literally changed my life to be able to hold my attention in a present moment.

Powerful Eric: Like with meditating.

Sir William: Well sure, with meditating. I’m a minister and so I help people change their lives. I may not call it mindfulness in the … I may be helping somebody and not saying, “You’re gonna be practicing mindfulness.” But I say, “Hold your attention in the moment. Observe your thoughts. What is it you’re really doing. Where does your attention go?”

Sir William: I remember one time you and I were talking about this and ideas were formulating and I said, “Eric, I got it. Every moment’s a choice. Meditate or masturbate.”

Powerful Eric: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Sir William: Then that makes me wanna ask, I mean, you have said a little bit about your experience and what brought you here, but what qualifies you to be the person to help me?

Powerful Eric: I, for years, had tried to fake it ’til I make it, you know? I would look myself in the mirror and say I like myself or I love myself or I’m learning to like myself, I’m learning to love myself. I never really believed it.

Sir William: Sure.

Powerful Eric: But one day I looked in the mirror and I could honestly say that I like myself. And I started to tear up, because for so many years I tried to fake it until I make it by saying those affirmations to myself. But for the first time in nearly all of my life, I looked myself in the eye and I said I like myself and I meant it.

Powerful Eric: So, to answer your question, is I have personally been there. If you go to a traditional route, most likely the person that’s helping you has not been in your shoes. I’ve been in your shoes and now I’m actually a paid employee of the mindful system. I’m also now a certified mindful habit coach. A mindful habit coach is specific for sex and porn addiction. Yes, we do all addictions, but that’s our specialty is sex and porn addiction.

Powerful Eric: I’m kind of like the hair club for men president. You know that he says … I don’t know if you remember those old commercials-

Sir William: Oh sure.

Powerful Eric: … he’d say, “I’m not only the president, I’m a member.” Or something like that. So, you know, I’ve used the program and I’m now a certified mindful habit coach. I know what does not work. I know what does not work. And I know what does work. To add on top of that, I’m certified as a emotional freedom technique coach as well; that’s EFT or the tapping. That’s what qualifies me to coach someone.

Sir William: Well, that kind of answers my next question that I had in mind, and that is: of all the things you could do, you chose this. Why is that? What is it you’re passionate about?

Powerful Eric: Well, I kind of feel like it chose me. Meaning that, you know, I didn’t wish to be addicted to pornography. What I’m passionate about is helping people. Because I know how devastating this addiction can be, or call it whatever you want. I know how it feels and I just wanna help people. That’s what I’m passionate about is helping people. My goal is now to positively impact and help one million sex and porn addicts to break the habit and create a great life for themselves and to make the world a better place to be.

Sir William: Wow, thank you. I appreciate that. Eric, what would you tell listeners who are struggling with addiction to porn or any other substance? Alcohol, drugs, overworking.

Powerful Eric: I would say this: that you can’t do it alone. You can’t do it alone. Ask for help.
< strong>Sir William: Really?

Powerful Eric: I do agree with the one guy that I saw on Oprah that said, you know, he’s never met anyone that was able to overcome this addiction on their own. So definitely, absolutely get help; whether it’s from your parents, from a teacher, from a minister, from a therapist, or a coach like myself. I do personal coaching for men that are addicted to porn.

Sir William: How do people get ahold of you?

Powerful Eric: They can reach me at

Sir William: Well hey, speaking of which, I noticed on your website Powerful Eric there’s that little character, that little guy, your little mascot. What’s the deal with that?

Powerful Eric: Yeah, the mascot is basically a little … he’s a little-

Sir William: Phallic?

Powerful Eric: … wiener. He’s a little wiener with arms, holding a smart phone, and he’s got a big red eye. You could say he’s the one-eyed monster. We’d like you to submit, if you could, to name our mascot. Some of the names that I came up with was El Porno, The Porn Monster, of course The One-Eyed Monster.

Sir William: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Powerful Eric: It reminds me of a show, believe it or not, for kids. My son watches. It’s called Captain Underpants. His nemesis is Professor Poopy Pants.

Sir William: Yes, yes, I remember that.

Powerful Eric: We are definitely in the right place for potty humor here, but if you could help us name the mascot. If you could submit that online on my Facebook page at Powerful Eric Coaching, or on my website Or you can email me at

Powerful Eric: One thing about the mascot is we’re joking about this, but this is to show that everything now seems to be sexualized. I created a word, or coined a word: the pornification. It’s the pornification of the world. It’s the normalizing of the viewing of pornography. Because when I was a boy, that wasn’t a normal thing. It wasn’t accessible like it is now. It’s the pornification of the world.

Powerful Eric: The program is not just about quitting porn. It’s about B.E.A.R. It’s an acronym, B-E-A-R. It’s about becoming enlightened about reality. It’s about being mindful about your life, mindful about your thoughts.

Sir William: Excellent. Now as you’re describing your experience and the things you learned and the things you’re teaching … and it’s been true for me when I teach and practice mindfulness. It’s gonna affect a person’s life in a lot of other ways, other than just quitting porn.

Powerful Eric: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a lot more than porn. In fact, that is just the tip of the iceberg. We do a … a part of the program we track our thoughts. We call them self-deprecating thoughts or sexual thoughts. We want to minimize those as much as we can. And we find with most of the guys that really the problem isn’t so much the sexual thoughts as it is the self-deprecating thoughts. By self-deprecating, you know, I mean, “I’m a piece of shit. How the hell did I do that? I’m such a dipshit.” I gotta say the most common one is, “I’m a piece of shit.”

Sir William: Really?

Powerful Eric: Yeah. So yeah, it’s a lot more … the porn is just a symptom.

Sir William: Yes.

Powerful Eric: Whether it’s alcohol, drugs-

Sir William: Got it.

Powerful Eric: … porn. That’s just the symptom and that’s the challenge that I found with most of the programs that I was in. They were addressing the symptom. How many days did you not do the thing?
Sir William: Right.

Powerful Eric: Whereas in this mindful program we concentrate on adding in positive thing into your life. For example, instead of counting how many days you’re not whacking off to porn, we count how many days did you do a yoga pose in a row. Something like that. Yoga is mindfulness.

Sir William: Really?

Powerful Eric: Yeah.

Sir William: Interesting. Before we go, I want to make sure that I mention something I saw on your website is this audiobook. Well, the title that got me was Everything You Know About Sex and Porn Addiction is Wrong. I thought, well, that’s a pretty bold statement, because there’s a lot of information out there about sex and porn addiction.

Powerful Eric: Yeah, it’s Everything You Know About Sex and Porn Addiction is Wrong: the Twenty-One Myths About Sex and Porn Addiction. Basically, you can learn from me what took about twenty years or so, you can learn in about twenty minutes. It’s actually less than an hour. If you go to my website you can get it for free.

Sir William: Well, I really appreciate you having me here today. I’m happy to be a part of this new adventure.

Powerful Eric: Well, thanks for being here William. Can you tell listeners where they can find you online?

Sir William: Oh, I’m at, I’m on Facebook as Happy Medium Will, and helping people focus and change their lives.

Powerful Eric: Fantastic. Thanks for listening to Porn Talk. Join us on our next episode when I interview Angela Skurtu, a certified sex therapist. You will love Angela. She is a lot of fun.

Powerful Eric: And I’ll close with Zig Ziglar, who says, “You are designed for accomplishment. You are engineered for success. You are endowed with the seeds of greatness.” Stay powerful, my friends.

Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. If you’re struggling with porn or sex addiction, then contact Eric at Or call 314-717-0377 for a free no obligation consultation. You are powerful.

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